Has my plumber breached our contract?

IMO, it would be a mistake to put the hours you expect someone to be on-site in the contract. That could significantly increase your costs:

For example, something gets glued together, but needs to cure. Do you really want those a couple of guys standing around waiting for that or can they go home and come back tomorrow morning when it is cured?

Same thing with inspections, etc.

Good contracts fully describe the work to be accomplished, the date of completion, any other details (such as who will supply what materials, who will get permits, etc.) and of course the end price. Complex jobs usually have details concerning unexpected over-runs for labor and materials.

Your project looks pretty straight forward, but the above are the basics.

You really don't want to be paying labor that is too tired to move after several hours of digging under the house to stand around for another 3 hours!

Just my opinion: Your mileage may vary.

Jerry

If you are wanting our advice on weather he breached the contract or not you are most likely not going to get the verification you are looking for. One, we are not lawyers and this is their realm of expertise. Two, there is a lot more to this complicated issue than we can all see or perceive. If he had been getting the message that you were not happy with his companies work and then you mother fired him, I'm not sure if I could blame him. Expecially if he was trying to help you out with the cost of the job and you reported him. I'm not condoning it as being ethical but it sounds like he might have legitimately been trying to help. If I was on a contract under those conditions I may have taken the same action and only billed you for work done. If you don't feel like he has performed the level of work that he has performed then you really need to get another plumbing company to come in and give you an estimate on work done and work to be completed.

plumb_bob_square_pants said:

Expecially if he was trying to help you out with the cost of the job and you reported him.

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I did not tell anyone about the plumber's desire to remove asbestos without a certificate, until the plumber had already left the project.

When the plumber left the project, he notified the municipality's building inspector that he was leaving. The building inspector came to our home to make sure that our home was not a health hazard, and he determined that our home was not a health hazard. During that visit, I mentioned to the building inspector that the plumber had offered to remove the asbestos without a certificate. My mention of this was an informal remark. I have not officially reported the plumber ... yet.

No offense, but you sound like a PIA customer. I would have bolted too with tires still screeching.

Debo22 said:

No offense, but you sound like a PIA customer. I would have bolted too with tires still screeching.

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Well, if a plumber wants to do a major job in my home, to the tune of $13000, of course I'm going to be a PIA to make sure that everything is done correctly.

I'm not sure why plumbers expect us to give them free reign in our home, with no questions asked.

To be fair did you have a time of completion in the contract. I am not sure why you would say plumbers want free reign of your house. How many plumbers have you dealt with.

If it were me i would try and start over and clear up a few concerns that you have. I would also mention that the work performed is not worth the money you paid him.

I just got an email from the Illinois Department of Public Health (IDPH), the state agency that licenses plumbers in Illinois. The IDPH is telling me that neither the plumbing company, nor the plumber himself, is licensed in Illinois. The IDPH says that the company and the plumber may be licensed in the City of Chicago, but I live in a suburb, not in Chicago itself.

So, if the plumber and the company are not licensed, and if the plumber told us that he and his company were licensed before we signed the contract, then does that mean that the plumber committed fraud? Can my mother and I sue him for fraud?

Chi42 said:

I just got an email from the Illinois Department of Public Health (IDPH), the state agency that licenses plumbers in Illinois. The IDPH is telling me that neither the plumbing company, nor the plumber himself, is licensed in Illinois. The IDPH says that the company and the plumber may be licensed in the City of Chicago, but I live in a suburb, not in Chicago itself.

So, if the plumber and the company are not licensed, and if the plumber told us that he and his company were licensed before we signed the contract, then does that mean that the plumber committed fraud? Can my mother and I sue him for fraud?

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what part of ask a lawyer are you not understanding ?

I just wanted to provide an update on my situation.

We hired another plumber to camera our sewer pipe from our crawl space.

The plumber did so, and here is what he discovered:

1) Our sewer pipe is NOT broken. There are no separations.

2) Between one of our bushes and the municipality's sewer, our sewer pipe slopes downward and then slopes upward. Our sewer pipe should not be sloping upward at all.

The pipe is sloping downward and then sloping upward, due to the shifting of the ground over time. This sloping is causing some sludge to come down and stay down. The sludge has trouble going up and into the municipality's sewer system, due to gravity.

3) There are some bush roots inside our sewer pipe, but those can be rodded away.



The plumber gave us two options:

1) Replace the section of pipe between the bush and the municipality's sewer. The new pipe would slope appropriately. This process would cost at least $10000 and would take 2 days.

2) Install a clean-out outdoors. The clean-out can be used to rod the sludge out of the pipe and into the municipality's sewer. This process would cost only $3500 and would take only 1 day.

The plumber recommends the cheaper option, option 2.



The plumber also said that he can find someone to fill in all the crawl-space digging that the previous plumber did (see the photos that I posted on page 2 of this thread), for about $1000. That amount seems a little high.



I do wonder how the previous plumber could say that he saw several separations. That plumber did camera the sewer pipe, but he did not record anything.

The new plumber did record the video, and we watched it on a computer. He said that the video shows that there are no separations.

did you learn anything ?

never ever ever ever pay someone befor the work is finished

and if the plumber did not record the sewer camera...tell him you will not pay

you are having it filmed so YOU can see what is going on