Kohler Shower valve diverter malfunction mystery

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KULTULZ said:
Here is the best explanation I have found. It is from another forum so I will post the author's name but not website to give credit where due-

Your style diverter is a a TEE DIVERTER (on tub spout);
Click to expand...

So if I understand correctly there is no mechanism, it just relies on fluid dynamics to work?
Could a miscast valve body be a cause then? (Ugh)
 
A thought: if there was a pressure difference between the hot supply line and the cold, would that cause the problem?

The tankless coil in my Burnham boiler is starting to leak and may need to be replaced soon. I had to replace it about 15 years ago and found it was pretty clogged and corroded.

But then, why doesn't it affect the other 304 valve?
 
Thanks for that explanation Kultulz. So correct me if I'm wrong but I think you suggested it and I just want to be clear. If the tee diverter and valve work on fluid dynamics and the two ports offer different outputs the valve body being wrong side up could cause Jacks problem, right? I think Jack could be right too in the idea the thing is straight up defective. Considering all the remediation that's been done. Also there is an easy way the valve should have UP printed on the side should be able to see enough of the vale by taking the trim off.

image.jpg
 
Also I don't think it could be a pressure issue between the hot and cold caused at the boiler because that would effect everything equally, ex: the exact same valve in the same system. If that's not true then I'm going to have some major internal logic issues to sort out.
 
Ugh. I'm going to have to open up that wall in the closet behind the valve, aren't I? (More work removing and replacing all the stuff than replacing the valve!).

Would YOU take a chance on another K-304 valve - on the assumption it is just a defect?
 
:eek:

Have you yet to remove the tub spout and check for deposits or simply replaced it to see if that is the problem?

I haven't been following all that closely but this sounds like a shotgun approach (no disrespect intended).
 
OK, I can say with 98% certainty that the valve is installed correctly.

There is info embossed on both sides of the valve that I can see looking through the opening in the shower wall.
The letters are right side up.

On the Left side of the valve it says:
SHWR
HOT
TUB/D
US PAT.

On the Right side of the valve it says:
PEP
1016
COLD
ER

And on the bottom it says "crap don't run uphill" (just kidding!):p
 
Well, it's been a while since I did the switch and guage - that's when I checked it - so I'm going off of memory (and that ain't pretty).

But I do know that I was satisfied it was the correct pressure when I checked it, and I do know that it is supposed to be 2# below cut in, so I'm going to guess it was 38# and I misspoke about 30.

Could check it again to be sure I guess.
 
2 psi below the cut in pressure is a good "rule of thumb". But 30 psi in the tank is plenty for normal operation. You wouldn't see any noticeable decrease in pressure, your pump would just cycle more water before it turns on
 
JackBuilder said:
(Some text deleted for brevity)

Pressure observation: It seems that if the water pressure at the problem valve is below 30# when you try and engage the diverter the vibration problem happens. If the well tank is more on the fully charged side of things it doesn’t happen - works great. So it is just dumb luck whether you get in to shower and the well tank is near the kick-in point.

(A 5# drop through the softeners does not seem bad to me for a 15 year old system.)
Click to expand...

Matt30 said:
2 psi below the cut in pressure is a good "rule of thumb". But 30 psi in the tank is plenty for normal operation. You wouldn't see any noticeable decrease in pressure, your pump would just cycle more water before it turns on
Click to expand...

You failed to mention that this statement was IMO.
 
Sorry. My pump certification and experience with hundreds of pumps a year means nothing then.

He's referring to his house pressures "kick in point", not the air pressure in his tank. If he jumps in when the house pressure is 60psi, no problems, if he jumps in when it's closer to 40psi, it happens.
 
Matt30 said:
If he jumps in when the house pressure is 60psi, no problems, if he jumps in when it's closer to 40psi, it happens.
Click to expand...

Correct. This is the symptom.

Question: What do folks think about the idea of raising the pressure? Like using a 50/70 switch? The Amtrol tank is rated for 100#.

In the back of my mind I recall something about problems running copper pipes at high(er) pressure.
 
Matt30 said:
Sorry. My pump certification and experience with hundreds of pumps a year means nothing then.

He's referring to his house pressures "kick in point", not the air pressure in his tank. If he jumps in when the house pressure is 60psi, no problems, if he jumps in when it's closer to 40psi, it happens.
Click to expand...

So the air pressure amount in the tank has no relevance?

Tell him what is wrong then.
 
I asked the air pressure. He told me 30 lbs. Air pressure is not the problem. On to the next idea.

Also, it makes it very hard for professionals to want to spend some of our free time helping DIYers, free of charge, with their projects or problems when ass hats like you have to challenge everything. Sometimes solving an issue is trial and error, that's why we ask questions to the poster and just don't go blurting out misinformed information we found online. You can't beat the experience of someone who's done it for a living. If the DIYers wanted a Google search, they can do that themselves.
 
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... Well I'm out of ideas. I don't work/know anything about the pump system your working with sorry I'm no help there. But IMO you may be onto something with the bad valve idea, it happens. In my experience if you have two valves the exact same on the same system and one is functioning fine and the other is not then problem is with that valve. Unless of course you have debris/buildup in the branch line/lines for that particular valve. Either way at this point some demo is required. But by know means am I the "expert" here, hope someone else can get you straightened out before you go cutting it out.
 
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