In the past 6 months, I've had 3 pinhole leaks in the same stretch of copper piping. PLEASE HELP!

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shibby

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Yep.

This is my first post. I am a homeowner and currently at a loss.

In the past 6 months, I have had 3 pinhole leaks in the same 20ft stretch of copper piping supplying my cold water. First occurred in April of this year, and 2nd in beginning of Dec, and the most recent, the 3rd, just yesterday.

They have all happened about 6 ft from each other and it's always a pinhole leak.

The first 2 were fixed by removing about a foot of old piping and coupling in a new one. The 3rd leak, about 3 ft of new piping was coupled in.

The plumbers tested my water pressure and determined the pressure to be normal. In addition, they mentioned that the copper piping is mid-grade piping. So pretty decent.

My place was built in 2004 so it's not too old piping.

No one knows why this is happening and I fear it will happen again.

One thing I do notice is sometimes, possibly when using water, I hear and knocking and bumping sound in the piping pretty much in the same 20ft stretch that the leaks have occurred. I'm not sure if this is something that may be causing the leaks, or if it's something else.

What are the chances that 3 pinhole leaks happen in a same stretch of copper piping within a span of 6 months in a 2004 built residence?

I am looking for a possible diagnosis and a fix to this problem. At this point I have no confidence that this is random, but something is causing it and it'll happen again.

Attached are some pics of the most recent leak and repair. The problem pipe running horizontal in each pic.

Thank you for you help, I really need some advice.


IMG_5387.JPG

IMG_5390.JPG

..
 
That piece of pipe may have been defective. If you get another leak, replace the entire length.
 
This may sound crazy. But I have seen it
if you are hearing a tinkle tinkle in that section of pipe, you may have a nail, screw, rock in the pipe
I fixed an elbow one time where a sheet rock screw had tumbled and wore a hole in the pipe

This is just a guess. but the water can make a screw tumble and it acts like a mini drill bit

If I were you, I'd replace that pipe
 
shibby said:
In the past 6 months, I have had 3 pinhole leaks in the same 20ft stretch of copper piping supplying my cold water. First occurred in April of this year, and 2nd in beginning of Dec, and the most recent, the 3rd, just yesterday.
Click to expand...

Where in LA are you? A plumber recently told me he won't install copper in some parts of (greater) LA because the water in some locations results in pinholes leaks like those you describe. If memory serves he said parts of the west side were OK for copper but the San Gabriel valley was not.

Other locations also have regional problems with this. For instance:

https://www.ocregister.com/2013/07/19/pinhole-leaks-plague-south-county-homeowners/
 
pasadena_commut said:
Where in LA are you? A plumber recently told me he won't install copper in some parts of (greater) LA because the water in some locations results in pinholes leaks like those you describe. If memory serves he said parts of the west side were OK for copper but the San Gabriel valley was not.

Other locations also have regional problems with this. For instance:

https://www.ocregister.com/2013/07/19/pinhole-leaks-plague-south-county-homeowners/
Click to expand...

I am located in Pasadena, so right in SGV! This is very interesting. Can you give me your plumber contact info?
 
I have replaced copper piping in many houses here in rural Vermont. Those pinhole leaks were caused by water that had a pH that was acidic. I have seen the piping so eaten away that I could crush it between 2 fingers.

There are 3 grades of copper piping- K, L and M. K is the thickest wall, typically used for buried applications, L is next, typically used for potable water, and the M is the thinnest walled, typically used for hydronic heating sytems. Type M is often used for potable water as well, but potable water systems are constantly bringing in fresh contaminates, such as dissolved oxygen, while heating systems are filled and vented.
 
shibby said:
Yep.

This is my first post. I am a homeowner and currently at a loss.

In the past 6 months, I have had 3 pinhole leaks in the same 20ft stretch of copper piping supplying my cold water. First occurred in April of this year, and 2nd in beginning of Dec, and the most recent, the 3rd, just yesterday.

They have all happened about 6 ft from each other and it's always a pinhole leak.

The first 2 were fixed by removing about a foot of old piping and coupling in a new one. The 3rd leak, about 3 ft of new piping was coupled in.

The plumbers tested my water pressure and determined the pressure to be normal. In addition, they mentioned that the copper piping is mid-grade piping. So pretty decent.

My place was built in 2004 so it's not too old piping.

No one knows why this is happening and I fear it will happen again.

One thing I do notice is sometimes, possibly when using water, I hear and knocking and bumping sound in the piping pretty much in the same 20ft stretch that the leaks have occurred. I'm not sure if this is something that may be causing the leaks, or if it's something else.

What are the chances that 3 pinhole leaks happen in a same stretch of copper piping within a span of 6 months in a 2004 built residence?

I am looking for a possible diagnosis and a fix to this problem. At this point I have no confidence that this is random, but something is causing it and it'll happen again.

Attached are some pics of the most recent leak and repair. The problem pipe running horizontal in each pic.

Thank you for you help, I really need some advice.


View attachment 22803

View attachment 22804

..
Click to expand...
It is probably flux pitting. This will only happen to cold water pipe. Are the holes on the bottom of the pipe? This will not happen to hot water pipe. The hot water breaks down the flux and washes it out. I had this happen to me and almost every house in my development. My house was built in 1990. City water. I sent sections of pipe away to have the holes tested. It was the flux. The flux back then had acid in it. Newer flux does not have acid in it. It turns out the plumber was at fault and how the flux was applied. The plumbing company ended up replacing all my cold water pipe in my entire house 8 years after it was built.
Instead of using a flux brush and applying it to the pipe, the plumber took the end of the pipe and dipped it in the flux. Result, a big glob of flux was inside the pipe. As years went by the flux was pushed down the pipe laying on the bottom of the pipe and eventually ate through the pipe as little pin holes. This is all fact no guessing. Call me 301-788-0491.
 
One other thing. Building codes at the time (1999) let plumbers use M grade pipe. They have since changed it to L grade pipe. When the plumber replaced my pipe it was with the L grade and acid free flux. I have not had a leak since.
 
UPC still allows copper type M for all residential (including underground outside a dwelling) unless it changed and I didn't catch it.
 
M copper has never been banned around here either. Most of us use L copper for inside potable water. M copper is
used mainly for boiler work but can be used for water lines inside the house too.
 
ggrimes said:
One other thing. Building codes at the time (1999) let plumbers use M grade pipe. They have since changed it to L grade pipe. When the plumber replaced my pipe it was with the L grade and acid free flux. I have not had a leak since.
Click to expand...
So, question to poster ggrimes: What codes are you referring to that prohibit copper type "M"?
 
This is a Frederick County, Maryland 2015 amendment to Table 605.4 Water Distribution Pipe of the International Plumbing Code. It reads:
upload_2020-1-3_7-50-24.png
I can provide the entire amendment if you would like. It is 12 pages long.
 
Your local code is telling you that type M copper tubing is no longer allowed
It is not saying type M copper pipe
There IS a difference
pipe is 20' sticks,
tubing is rolls of copper
YES YES YES.. In the field copper piping is refereed to as TUBING
BUT in reality, hard copper is pipe not tubing
soft copper is tubing not pipe

water_main.png water_main1.png

Around here
You can not find type m soft copper, only L or K
We have Never been allowed to install M under ground
 
You are correct. My error. But, 2 years ago I had a plumber do some work for me and he informed me that they do not use M pipe anymore in homes. He actually noticed that I had L pipe in my house for the cold water lines.
 
ggrimes said:
You are correct. My error. But, 2 years ago I had a plumber do some work for me and he informed me that they do not use M pipe anymore in homes. He actually noticed that I had L pipe in my house for the cold water lines.
Click to expand...

We never have used m , only l or k
the reason being. m is not allowed outside the building. if you have m on the truck some yahoo is going to use what ever he has on the truck, then the company is liable.
so. I do not buy m. that problem is solved before it ever happens
same with lead solder. we do not buy it. if a plumber is caught with a roll rat holed away. he is automatically fired

NOTE..some plumbers will keep a roll of 50/50 in the tool box for a tough leak that is not wanting to be fixed
special occasion type thing. NOT COOL !!!!!!!!!!!
 
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