DougD
New Member
Hello everybody. This is my first post here. I’m in the middle of a toilet drain crisis and I’m hoping someone can offer some advice.
This house still has about a month of warranty left on it but the builder might not consider this to be a warrantable item. I have posted a detailed explanation and pics below. This isn’t a true emergency just yet but I’m getting worried. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Doug
===============
The Situation
This was a brand new house when we moved in 11 months ago. It’s a one-story brick home with a concrete slab foundation. Builder-installed toilets are "ProFlo" brand super high efficiency toilets (1.28gpf) but they would hardly flush anything. I think they were adjusted wrong and set up poorly. I installed new internals & adjusted them so the water line was just below the flush handle. That solved all the problems with the toilet in the master bathroom but not the toilet in the guest bathroom which is located in approximately the geometric center of the house.
This toilet never did have a “vigorous” flush and it's the one in the kid's bathroom. We believed the kids were to blame because it’s been clogging regularly for about a year. I’ve always been able to get it cleared by plunging or using dish soap and warm water. Still, it has never flushed as good as the other toilet. Also, we thought that our 9 year old boy had been "missing" the toilet because we kept seeing moisture on the left side of the toilet (but no obvious leak from that side).
On Christmas Eve, it developed a clog that couldn't be fixed no matter what I did. I "snaked" it with my small drain auger but that didn't work. I even poured acid-based drain opener in there. The best it would do is slowly drain after about 10 minutes.
While I was trying to clear the clog, I noticed a small gap in the caulk on the left side of the toilet base. Water was coming out of that gap when I was plunging the toilet so I knew the wax seal was not intact.
I pulled the whole toilet out and discovered that the vertical drain in the concrete slab was slightly "off.” They used this offset flange to center the toilet in the space between the counter top and the wall. Click HERE to see a pdf document on the exact offset flange I discovered in my floor. Here’s what I’m looking at:
The left side of the metal ring is completely unsupported and already showing a little bit of rust. There's a big gap underneath it which extends down to and around the left side of the pipe in the slab. In my opinion, the installer also did a bad job with the wax seal and setting up the surface around the flange.
After removing the toilet and exposing the flange, I filled a 5 gallon bucket and poured water directly down the pipe. The water filled up the drain pipe and didn’t go down for several minutes (the vertical portion of the pipe is approx. 8” deep and then it makes a 90 degree turn to the left).
After the water went down, I “snaked” the pipe with my small drain auger. Then I poured about 10 gallons of hot water and heavy soap in there. A few minutes later, I could pour the whole 5 gallon bucket of water in the drain pipe it didn’t back up like it did before. I did this three times in a row as fast as I could without missing the hole and spilling water all over the place.
I brought a water hose inside the bathroom and ran a full-flowing stream of water into the drain pipe for several minutes without any backup of water. However, the water backs up almost immediately when I put a single handful of toilet paper in the pipe along with the flowing water. That tells me there’s still a partial obstruction in the drain line. Water can get through but solid or semi-solid waste cannot.
My Current Theory
The toilet design is inferior and inefficient. I also suspect the kids have “abused” the toilet with too much paper (or maybe a toy or foreign object) - which further hinders the flow from a bad toilet. It’s also possible that some construction debris got in the line during the building process. There’s no way tree roots are blocking the drain line in the front yard.
A friend assures me that the offset flange is not part of the problem though I’m not 100% convinced of that. Assuming the offset flange is not contributing to a slow flow, the problem is a clogged drain pipe caused by:
A. Too much paper, foreign object, etc.
B. Poorly designed toilet with inadequate flushing power
C. Improper installation of toilet with wax ring partially obstructing the opening of the flange
D. A combination of the above
Tentative Plan
1 – Get a motorized snake and run it down that drain pipe. Run water in the drain while doing this. Ensure the line is truly clear.
2 – Have an experienced plumber look at the offset flange and give me his opinion on it (Hindering flow? Mounted too high? Installed correctly? Replace it or keep it?).
3 – If the offset flange is good to go, get some concrete patch and fill the gap located on the left side of the vertical pipe (under the left side of the metal flange). Let everything set up and dry.
4 – Place some supports in the gap under the metal flange.
5 - Install this American Standard toilet I just bought. It’s supposed to be one of the best on the market.
Questions
1 – Is the offset flange part of the problem? If so, what should I do about it?
2 – Is the flange too high for mounting a new toilet?
3 – Is my plan to auger the line a wise move?
4 – Any other thoughts on my situation?
This house still has about a month of warranty left on it but the builder might not consider this to be a warrantable item. I have posted a detailed explanation and pics below. This isn’t a true emergency just yet but I’m getting worried. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Doug
===============
The Situation
This was a brand new house when we moved in 11 months ago. It’s a one-story brick home with a concrete slab foundation. Builder-installed toilets are "ProFlo" brand super high efficiency toilets (1.28gpf) but they would hardly flush anything. I think they were adjusted wrong and set up poorly. I installed new internals & adjusted them so the water line was just below the flush handle. That solved all the problems with the toilet in the master bathroom but not the toilet in the guest bathroom which is located in approximately the geometric center of the house.
This toilet never did have a “vigorous” flush and it's the one in the kid's bathroom. We believed the kids were to blame because it’s been clogging regularly for about a year. I’ve always been able to get it cleared by plunging or using dish soap and warm water. Still, it has never flushed as good as the other toilet. Also, we thought that our 9 year old boy had been "missing" the toilet because we kept seeing moisture on the left side of the toilet (but no obvious leak from that side).
On Christmas Eve, it developed a clog that couldn't be fixed no matter what I did. I "snaked" it with my small drain auger but that didn't work. I even poured acid-based drain opener in there. The best it would do is slowly drain after about 10 minutes.
While I was trying to clear the clog, I noticed a small gap in the caulk on the left side of the toilet base. Water was coming out of that gap when I was plunging the toilet so I knew the wax seal was not intact.
I pulled the whole toilet out and discovered that the vertical drain in the concrete slab was slightly "off.” They used this offset flange to center the toilet in the space between the counter top and the wall. Click HERE to see a pdf document on the exact offset flange I discovered in my floor. Here’s what I’m looking at:
The left side of the metal ring is completely unsupported and already showing a little bit of rust. There's a big gap underneath it which extends down to and around the left side of the pipe in the slab. In my opinion, the installer also did a bad job with the wax seal and setting up the surface around the flange.
After removing the toilet and exposing the flange, I filled a 5 gallon bucket and poured water directly down the pipe. The water filled up the drain pipe and didn’t go down for several minutes (the vertical portion of the pipe is approx. 8” deep and then it makes a 90 degree turn to the left).
After the water went down, I “snaked” the pipe with my small drain auger. Then I poured about 10 gallons of hot water and heavy soap in there. A few minutes later, I could pour the whole 5 gallon bucket of water in the drain pipe it didn’t back up like it did before. I did this three times in a row as fast as I could without missing the hole and spilling water all over the place.
I brought a water hose inside the bathroom and ran a full-flowing stream of water into the drain pipe for several minutes without any backup of water. However, the water backs up almost immediately when I put a single handful of toilet paper in the pipe along with the flowing water. That tells me there’s still a partial obstruction in the drain line. Water can get through but solid or semi-solid waste cannot.
My Current Theory
The toilet design is inferior and inefficient. I also suspect the kids have “abused” the toilet with too much paper (or maybe a toy or foreign object) - which further hinders the flow from a bad toilet. It’s also possible that some construction debris got in the line during the building process. There’s no way tree roots are blocking the drain line in the front yard.
A friend assures me that the offset flange is not part of the problem though I’m not 100% convinced of that. Assuming the offset flange is not contributing to a slow flow, the problem is a clogged drain pipe caused by:
A. Too much paper, foreign object, etc.
B. Poorly designed toilet with inadequate flushing power
C. Improper installation of toilet with wax ring partially obstructing the opening of the flange
D. A combination of the above
Tentative Plan
1 – Get a motorized snake and run it down that drain pipe. Run water in the drain while doing this. Ensure the line is truly clear.
2 – Have an experienced plumber look at the offset flange and give me his opinion on it (Hindering flow? Mounted too high? Installed correctly? Replace it or keep it?).
3 – If the offset flange is good to go, get some concrete patch and fill the gap located on the left side of the vertical pipe (under the left side of the metal flange). Let everything set up and dry.
4 – Place some supports in the gap under the metal flange.
5 - Install this American Standard toilet I just bought. It’s supposed to be one of the best on the market.
Questions
1 – Is the offset flange part of the problem? If so, what should I do about it?
2 – Is the flange too high for mounting a new toilet?
3 – Is my plan to auger the line a wise move?
4 – Any other thoughts on my situation?
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