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Old 05-01-2014, 04:35 PM   #1
StrongEagle
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Default GasFlex Pipe

I'd appreciate any comments you all might have about this product. It's got lots of positive recommendations on Amazon.

http://www.gasflex.com/

http://www.gasflex.com/htms/english.htm

If I were to use this, it would be to connect a gas grill. I'd connect to an existing T in the rafters in my garage (currently used to supply gas to run a [non-existent] space heater - capped at the valve). I'd use a gas valve at the T, attach this stuff and run it on the underside of a covered walkway from house to garage, then down a 4x4 supporting the covered walkway. A second gas valve, and a gas grill quick connect would be attached. The run down the 4x4 would be inside a piece of PVC to protect against physical damage.

Recommendations appreciated. This is in Houston, Texas. I've been reading the code but am unsure if this pipe is to code.



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Old 06-09-2014, 12:24 AM   #2
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Folks, I didn't get any responses to my query, and that's understandable given that this product doesn't have wide use or distribution in the USA.

I decided to go ahead with the flex pipe and completed the installation for my gas grill. If anyone is interested, I'll post it in the project forum with reference to this thread.

Cheers.



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Old 06-09-2014, 04:20 PM   #3
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Flexible gas pipe is dangerous, prone to leaking, easily damaged, susceptible to lightening strikes (even the ones that claim otherwise), and will put you and your family at risk of injury and/or death.

Other than that, it is great stuff.

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Old 06-09-2014, 05:43 PM   #4
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I am going to have to disagree. There is no more risk to lightning strike then galvy or black iron. It is more flexible in earthquake areas. And if installed and fused right pe pipe is the way to go

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Old 06-10-2014, 03:54 AM   #5
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Only issues I've ever heard of with csst is easily damaged. If you hit it with a screw or something it'll punch right through, haven't heard of any issues regarding lightning myself up where I live. If installed properly should never leak. They put them in houses and bbq lines in Alberta and there hasn't been any issues. Just my two cents

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Old 06-10-2014, 03:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
...There is no more risk to lightning strike then galvy or black iron...
You are correct that it is no more susceptible to a strike than sch40 steel, but it is MUCH more prone to catastrophic failure as a result. The thin tubing does not hold up against the high current imposed as well as sch40 steel.

If a house were in an area that never gets lightning, then I guess it would be okay, but I would still not put it in my house. Not with my family. One township in Oklahoma is even asking all plumbing contractors in the area to report all homes with CSST gas tubes to the building official's office and the fire department. You have to ask yourself why they would be so concerned. Maybe it is because Edmond Oklahoma had six homes burn to the ground within a six month period. All were a direct result of CSST tubes blown out by lightning.

The attached graph illustrates the danger. Notice how much more energy is required to cause similar damage to sch40 steel. This is from the link below to Hawkeye Home Inspections. They also reference one of the homes destroyed in Edmond Oklahoma with photos. The CSST tubing was blown out but the steel pipe in the home was just fine.

In just "one" trail, the plaintiff was awarded over $1m because of blown out CSST from lightning.
http://claims-management.theclm.org/home/article/over-1-million-for-csst-case

This next is from Peekskill, NY in Westchester County:
http://ecode360.com/6430565

§ 422-17 Legislative findings; purpose; scope.
[Amended 2-22-1993; 10-22-2007 by L.L. No. 8-2007]

A. Legislative findings.
(1) The Common Council finds that prohibiting the use of corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST), as approved by the New York State Uniform Fire Prevention and Building Code, would promote and protect the health, safety, welfare and property of the citizenry of the City of Peekskill and is therefore in the best interest of the citizenry of the City of Peekskill. The Common Council further finds that, through a nationwide class action lawsuit filed and settled against the various manufacturers of CSST, CSST has been found to be unreasonably susceptible to damage from arcing by direct or indirect lightning strikes. A direct or indirect lightning strike can create holes, allowing gas leaks that can result in a fire or an explosion.

(2) The Common Council finds that on one occasion, a puncture hole was caused by the inherent defects of CSST, causing a fire to burn for at least two months. The Common Council further finds that, separate from and in addition to the real hazard of direct or indirect lightning strikes, the CSST has caused, on two separate occasions within only a two-month period in the City of Peekskill, actual leaks within concealed spaces resulting from puncture holes caused by nails used in routine construction applications as a result of the CSST being pulled through existing walls against nails protruding into those walls, or new nails being hammered or shot with a nail gun into walls where CSST is located. These serious occurrences are substantial evidence that CSST is unreasonably prone to leaks, fire hazards and actual fires in normal construction situations. The Common Council does not know if these problems are unique to the City of Peekskill or if they are pervasive problems throughout New York State, but the risk of injury or death and property damage that has been experienced in the City of Peekskill far outweighs any economic benefit that the installer may realize though the use of CSST. The Common Council further finds that puncture holes made to CSST by both professionals and homeowners pose a very real threat to life, health, safety and property.

(3) Through this legislation the City desires to encourage the use of galvanized or black iron pipe, which it finds to be the most puncture-resistant material available for such applications, and to prohibit the use of CSST.

B. Purpose. The purpose of this section is to provide minimum standards to safeguard life or limb, health, property and public welfare by regulating and controlling the design, construction, installation, quality of materials, location, operation and maintenance or use.

C. Scope. This chapter represents basic standards governing the installation of gas piping and gas appliance connections in buildings. These standards apply only to low-pressure (not in excess of 1/2 pound per square inch) gas piping systems in buildings extending from the gas meter outlet or regulators to the inlet connections of appliances and the installation of residential and commercial gas appliances supplied through such systems by bottled gas or public utilities. They are intended to cover the installation and tests of such systems for fuel gases, such as natural gas and liquefied petroleum and/or manufactured gas. They are not intended to cover systems or portions of systems supplying equipment engineered, designed and installed for specific manufacturing, production manufacturing, production processing and power-generating applications, such as large and high-pressure boilers, melting and treating furnaces, production ovens, etc. For piping in gas distribution system, in gas manufacturing plants, in gas compressing stations and in gas processing plants, consult the gas utility corporation. No permit shall be required for installation, removal or refilling of liquefied petroleum tanks as a regular continued supply to building.


So again I say:
Flexible gas pipe is dangerous, prone to leaking, easily damaged, susceptible to lightening strikes (even the ones that claim otherwise), and will put you and your family at risk of injury and/or death.

Other than that, it is great stuff.

A little more light reading:
http://www.dps.state.ia.us/fm/CSST_Flier.pdf
http://www.csstsafety.com/CSST-lightning.html
http://hawkeyehomeinspects.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/CSST-DANGERS.pdf
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/22/csst-gas-tubing-fires-concern_n_1164512.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/lightning-strike-fires-reignite-debate-over-gas-pipe-safety-n55006
http://ecmweb.com/bonding-amp-grounding/whose-job-it-bond-corrugated-stainless-steel-tubing-csst?page=2
http://www.forthepeople.com/class-action-lawyers/csst-lawsuits
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Omega_Flex_%28OFLX%29/Lovelis_Titeflex_Inc
http://www.reliableremodeler.com/blog/index.php/2011/01/02/new-warnings-about-corrugated-stainless-steel-tubing/
http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2011/02/07/burning-down-the-house-latent-csst-danger-seen-for
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/plumbing-system-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/37277-unbiased-feedback-corrugated-stainless-steel-tubing.html
http://www.myfoxlubbock.com/news/local/story/lubbock-fire-CSST-corrugated-stainless-steel-tu/g8SWXnf_ZEK1ON-vnhrbDw.cspx
http://www.kctv5.com/story/20109399/kctv5-investigates-gas-line-fires
http://www.classaction.org/csst
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/firesafety/news/20120730-gas-pipe-hazard.html
http://www.iapfc.net/CSST%20Position%20Statement%20%282%29.pdf
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/22782602/csst-fire-risk-minnesota-homes-built-after-1989
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/05/28/pa-officials-warn-homeowners-of-explosion-danger-from-certain-natural-gas-tubing/
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Old 06-10-2014, 03:28 PM   #7
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Or in short...

CSST gas tubes are the single most dangerous thing to come down the plumbing pike since the indoor water closet had nothing but a chamber pot with no vent.

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Old 06-10-2014, 03:43 PM   #8
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CSST was just starting to be used when I retired. I had one experience with it and it wasn't good. It was used to pipe a gas home generator that was installed outside. The home owner was mowing his lawn when he bumped the line were it connected to the generator causing the joint to leak. That would have never happened if it was black iron or galvanized. The lawn mower being used was a push mower. My opinion is it's too fragile to be used for gas.

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Old 06-10-2014, 03:50 PM   #9
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I had the CSST pipe installed with my pool addition, and for a few bucks more, the installer provided me a branch to run my NG barbecue. This was all buried 18" below grade and when it came out of the ground, it was converted to black pipe. I would not hesitate using it again.

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Old 06-10-2014, 03:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havasu View Post
I had the CSST pipe installed with my pool addition, and for a few bucks more, the installer provided me a branch to run my NG barbecue. This was all buried 18" below grade and when it came out of the ground, it was converted to black pipe. I would not hesitate using it again.
This is the first item in TracPipe's FAQ's. http://www.tracpipe.com/FAQ/

Did you have it in a conduit?


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