Can anyone look at my pic and give advice

Plumbing Forums

Help Support Plumbing Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

FFcady

New Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Location
,
The line not connected is the vent line. The long line is from a shower, the short u-turn line is from the tub. I put 2" for the tub since it's a large deep tub. I asked 4 plumbers for help and no one wanted the job. I've remodeled many bathrooms but alway hooked to existing lines. This is a complete tear out. Thanks

IMG_3694.jpg

IMG_3695.jpg

IMG_3696.jpg

IMG_3697.jpg
 
Disclaimer: I am not a professional plumber. I am a DIYer who has been studying plumbing code and learning about how things work. I have learned quite a bit from the pros here, but I know that I still have more to learn.

Hmm.. Well, I see some problems with the floor joists that are notched at the edge. That just ruins the structural integrity. If I remember correctly, you are not supposed to notch a joist on the edge- it should be notched in the middle and not be more than 50% of the thickness of the joist. I think you are not supposed to notch within 2" of the edge of the joist either (but I could be wrong on those numbers).
https://www.familyhandyman.com/floor/how-joists-work/view-all

Are you planning to use some perpendicular boards to box in the notched joists for extra support?

As for the piping, that is quite a mess there. Are they sloping downward at 1/4" per foot?

In order for the vents to work properly, you can't go vertical on the trap arm (the part after the P-trap) until you have the vent. The developed length of the trap arm must be no less than 2 pipe diameters long (so if you have a 2" pipe the arm needs to be at least 4") and no more than a certain length (which differs according to the plumbing code you use-- IPC lets you have about 6 feet for a 2" pipe, UPC is shorter (my state uses IPC so I'm not sure on UPC rules). The drop on the developed length of the trap arm can not exceed one pipe diameter (so a 2" needs to have less than 2" drop). The purpose of minimum length is to prevent a crown vent that would allow water to be siphoned from the trap (and make it so it would not block sewer gases from coming up). The maximum length is to prevent the arm from filling all the way to the top- thus blocking air and creating a vacuum which would make it harder to drain.

Once the vent is reached, the vent pipe must slope up at 1/4" per foot so that any condensation will run down.

How far is the nearest wall that you could run pipes in to? Where is that vent pipe going and how long is it? Is there a way for you to move the drain to that wall instead of under the tub?

If so, keep the tub drain trap in that direction but take off the bends and make it go straight to the wall and put the vent up in that wall. Take the trap on the shower and flip it the opposite direction and run it's vent straight to the wall. If you are running the new vents to meet with an existing one, you would run both tub and shower vents vertically until they were at least 6" above the flood level of the fixtures and then you could run them horizontally (with the upward slope) to meet the existing vent pipe.

From what I'm seeing in your layout you have the tub drain going vertical before it reaches the vent. Those are some huge notches in the joist which will require more reinforcement (basically you may need to box the joists).

Looks like you used a tee-wye for the sweep to the horizontal vent from the tub. The angle is such that I don't think it would block the air from the shower. Generally wyes are not used in vents because the angles are such that they block the air- but I don't know how it would work in horizontal application. Additionally, you have the vent line going horizontal under the floor instead of 6" above the flood level of the highest fixture-- this means that the vent can fill with water and block the air. So, basically neither fixture would be vented properly.

What fitting did you use to make the tub's drain go vertical? I can't see it very well and it looks like it is some sort of double elbow type thing.

A sketch and dimensions of the room as well as more pictures of the surrounding area would be helpful.

To the pros: If I'm wrong about anything, please let me know.
 
Last edited:
why ? why ? why did you drill those floor joists and THEN ask for help ?

your plumbing pipes have no fall, therefore the holes are in the wrong place.

therefore the joists are now trashed.

what is down stairs from you ?

whaere are the vents for this plumbing ?

you can not use a bucket full of 90's you have to plan where to bring the ipe up thru the floor


IMG_3695.jpg
 
I'm wondering about all of the 90's on that one trap with the pressure 90. I am not understanding any of the logic behind what has been done.
 
Frodo Is right. That is a mess. That :eek: tee after the 1st p-trap going down into floor has to come out. PERIOD.

You need a plan.

Why don't the plumbers want the job?
Maybe because what you are asking them to do, can't be done.

Good luck.
 
This is why it is always best to sketch a diagram and figure out how to do the plumbing BEFORE cutting holes and gluing stuff together. That is a lot of wasted material and it is going to require quite a lot of repairs for the floor.
I'm not trying to be mean or make you feel bad, but I hope this will be a learning experience. People can look at this and see what not to do, and you will know not to do this again.
There are people here who are willing and able to help with advice, but there is a lot of damage here.

PROBLEMS:
* Short sweep vent 90s can not be used for drainage
* Drain can not go down/vertical until it reaches a vent
* Joists should never be notched to this extent-- holes should always be made as small as possible and should never be more than 50% of the joist width
* Wye will not effectively vent the shower drain because of the angle of the sweep
* Horizontal vent from wye is useless-- vents must remain vertical until they are at least 6" above the flood level of the highest fixture served
* Drain pipes must slope downward at 1/4" per foot. Vent pipes (once they are allowed to go horizontal) must slop upward at 1/4" per foot.
* Electrical should be in conduit or some protective sheathing to prevent nail or screw punctures.
* Water supply lines should be in the middle of the joist, not on the very bottom where they can be punctured with nails or screws.
* Ideally, metal plates should be put over the joists wherever pipes are passing through to ensure they don't get punctured by long nails or screws.

SUGGESTIONS:
* Call in a structural engineer to inspect the damage to determine what will need to be done to make the structure sound again (This could potentially be very dangerous-- you do not want your ceiling/floor collapsing on to the room below).
* Run the tub and shower trap arms individually in the same direction as the vent (not to exceed 5' or 6' in length)

Until I see where the "vent" line you put in was going, I don't have much more to say-- but you would vent up through the nearest wall. You may need to add a bulkhead or something if you have to route the drains back to where you had the drain for the tub.

badplumbing1.png

plumbingsnafu.png
 
I'm sorry I didn't explain better. There is no other wall to take this down than where the T goes down. All the notches and holes and copper pipe is previous. The only thing I've done is place all the drain not glued. I have a plan to sister lumber to repair all those notches prior to permanently placing drains. This is a second floor and where the T goes down the first floor wall is existing and that huge cut out is where prior plumbers cut to bring tub drain over to the T. There was a wall inside this bathroom that the original vent went up to attic then T over to the vent stack. I removed the wall and only had the one option to vent is where the PVC is laying on the flor not connected. I planed on reducing it at that sweeping T, I only placed that 2" to show the direction of the vent (see pic). All the copper is coming out and ran to different locations. A plumber did say he would do the job and explained this same process but he wanted $4000 to put in that little bit of PVC. The section of joist that is missing is sitting on top of a double header wall down below.

IMG_3699.jpg
 
I'm sorry that I assumed you were responsible for notching those joists and doing the wiring and water lines like that. I'm very glad to hear that you did not notch those joists-- but whoever did notch them needs to be slapped upside the head.
There is more involved than just putting in a little PVC. The plumber would need to figure out the most effective plan and might have to cut through things and might have intended to fix some of those problems with the joist and water supply lines. If someone purporting to be a professional notched those joists and installed those pipes like that like that, I'd want to find out who it was and report them for doing that damage. They should lose their license for that kind of crap.
You might want to call back the plumber who quoted $4k and find out what exactly he would do for that amount.

*Are you planning to put up any walls or built-in-pieces of furniture in the room?
*Is there an attic space above this floor?
*Is there space in the flooplan to have small decorative looking columns that could be used for the vents?
*After the horizontal vent passes under that other wall, where does it go?
*Do you have a sketch of what you would like the finished layout to look like?
*Were you planning to add a sink or toilet too, or is this just a rest place for showering and soaking in the tub?
*What sort of shower and tub were you planning to get?
* If the one spot where the drain went down is the only place you have, you may need to run the trap arms to the wall, run the vents vertical inside the wall up to the attic and out the roof (or tie in to the existing vent stack in the attic), then merge the drains under that wall and run them both back to that spot to drain it. You may have to lower the ceiling or add some sort of bulkhead below to allow for proper slope.

Otherwise, you will have to fix the joists, cap all that off, close up the floor, and forget having a bathroom up there.

If you are determined to have a bathroom up there, you may need to reconfigure the layout to allow you to have the plumbing go to the right places.
 
If that was done by original contractor i would worry about what is code in that place. I cant see anything that any inspector would pass in that floor. I know plumbing inspectors that would call on you for notching joist like that. You have a mess on your hands that i dont see being fixed using the as is locations.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top