Installed Whirlpool Water Softener

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New2Wellz

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Hi, all.

I just signed up to ask a question about my well pressure tank, so I thought I would first post a pic of a water softener I recently installed.

I was recently laid off, and moved into this house only a few years ago, so am taking advantage of my free time to work on the project backlog.

So far I've done faux painting, installed this water softener, built an oak mantle, built a cornice for above my patio door, installed recessed and under cabinet lights, plumbed for a new bathroom vanity, and lots of other stuff.

I had my water tested not long after I moved in through a local university extension program. (I ended up taking a Master Well Owner's program though them). Everything was fine with my water except the hardness...it's 225 mg/l. I had ruined coffee makers and aggravated my kidney stones, so I have been lugging in bottled water, dealing with the empties, etc.

I opted for a salt-based system because I needed to remove the minerals for my kidney stone issue, not just suspend them. Due to lack of floor space for a multi-tank system, I decided to install one of the Whirlpool units sold at Lowe's. The reviews from those who had this unit for a period of time were all good.

WaterSoftener.jpg


This is Model WHES33...33,000 grains @ 14.1 lbs of salt.

I also installed a particulate filter (we have mica particles in our water) as well as a charcoal filter. I put in bypass valves just in case. Another benefit to this install was moving the particulate filter from the crawlspace to the main floor, where I can get to it easier.

This was my first attempt at using PEX. I think I'm in love :). I installed the configuration you see in the pic, and ran supply lines over 40' to the pressure tank at the other end of the house. Not an ideal situation, but it is what it is. While I was in the crawlspace, I reran the lines to relocate a bathroom vanity.

Not a single PEX fitting leaked. The only minor leaks I encountered was where I connected 3/4" npt plastic male into 3/4" copper female fittings at the filters and then the reverse at the inlet/outlet of the softener. They did not leak...they seeped maybe a drop a day...all 6 connections. Seeped just enough to be aggravating.

So I told myself that there was a reason I did this type of work myself, took them apart and resealed them. Of course I had to cut and reinstall the PEX that they were attached to...again, not a single PEX fitting leaked.

I also tied the discharge/overflow lines into the a/c condensate line, ran it outside and emptied into the corrugated runoff pipe used for the gutter. It dumps into the woods away from the house and yard, not into the septic tank.

Regarding the Whirlpool unit:

It's been in place for over 5 months now and works fine. I drink a lot of water, and no kidney stones yet. I have also had no coffee maker issues. It seems to be highly efficient regarding salt consumption.

The only thing I have noticed...and I may be wrong about this...is that occasionally when I wash my hands, I do not get that slippery softened water feeling, and the soap rinses off easily. It makes me wonder if this unit periodically passes through unsoftened water. Or maybe sometimes it passes through water that is more softened than at other times. It does not have a salt bridge. And I always get fully softened water under high use, like when doing dishes or taking a shower.

Other than that, as I said, I am not getting any physical side effects or clogged coffee maker/tea kettle, so it's certainly doing the job the vast majority of the time. And it's great to be free of all those water bottles. I live in a rural area where I have to cart my trash to a dropoff station, and was getting tired of carting all those empties to be recycled!
 
I may be in a minority of plumbers who actually like to install Eco-Water manufactured water softeners like your Whirlpool, GE and Kenmore. The softener will bypass unsoftened water only during the regeneration process but the factory default regeneration time is 2 am. If you regularly use a lot of water at that time it is easy to change the regen time by following the instructions under the lid. I think you made a good Made in Minnesota choice and will be happy with the results.
 
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Thanks, SHR.

Yeh, it's set to regenerate at 2AM. It's nice to hear from a professional plumber who likes these units.

I procrastinated for quite a while on installing a softener because I wanted to go with a no-salt unit. But much of that technology looks like voodoo science to the uneducated consumer, and I also realized that I need to REMOVE the minerals from the water.

Lowe's carries three different Westinghouse units (as you stated, OEM'd by Eco-Water), and I was careful to read the reviews on all of them by those who were long-term users. Everyone seems to be satisfied with them, and 5 months into ownership so am I. And I don't miss water bottles one bit.
 
Hi, all.

I just signed up to ask a question about my well pressure tank, so I thought I would first post a pic of a water softener I recently installed.

I was recently laid off, and moved into this house only a few years ago, so am taking advantage of my free time to work on the project backlog.

So far I've done faux painting, installed this water softener, built an oak mantle, built a cornice for above my patio door, installed recessed and under cabinet lights, plumbed for a new bathroom vanity, and lots of other stuff.

I had my water tested not long after I moved in through a local university extension program. (I ended up taking a Master Well Owner's program though them). Everything was fine with my water except the hardness...it's 225 mg/l. I had ruined coffee makers and aggravated my kidney stones, so I have been lugging in bottled water, dealing with the empties, etc.

I opted for a salt-based system because I needed to remove the minerals for my kidney stone issue, not just suspend them. Due to lack of floor space for a multi-tank system, I decided to install one of the Whirlpool units sold at Lowe's. The reviews from those who had this unit for a period of time were all good.

WaterSoftener.jpg


This is Model WHES33...33,000 grains @ 14.1 lbs of salt.

I also installed a particulate filter (we have mica particles in our water) as well as a charcoal filter. I put in bypass valves just in case. Another benefit to this install was moving the particulate filter from the crawlspace to the main floor, where I can get to it easier.

This was my first attempt at using PEX. I think I'm in love :). I installed the configuration you see in the pic, and ran supply lines over 40' to the pressure tank at the other end of the house. Not an ideal situation, but it is what it is. While I was in the crawlspace, I reran the lines to relocate a bathroom vanity.

Not a single PEX fitting leaked. The only minor leaks I encountered was where I connected 3/4" npt plastic male into 3/4" copper female fittings at the filters and then the reverse at the inlet/outlet of the softener. They did not leak...they seeped maybe a drop a day...all 6 connections. Seeped just enough to be aggravating.

So I told myself that there was a reason I did this type of work myself, took them apart and resealed them. Of course I had to cut and reinstall the PEX that they were attached to...again, not a single PEX fitting leaked.

I also tied the discharge/overflow lines into the a/c condensate line, ran it outside and emptied into the corrugated runoff pipe used for the gutter. It dumps into the woods away from the house and yard, not into the septic tank.

Regarding the Whirlpool unit:

It's been in place for over 5 months now and works fine. I drink a lot of water, and no kidney stones yet. I have also had no coffee maker issues. It seems to be highly efficient regarding salt consumption.

The only thing I have noticed...and I may be wrong about this...is that occasionally when I wash my hands, I do not get that slippery softened water feeling, and the soap rinses off easily. It makes me wonder if this unit periodically passes through unsoftened water. Or maybe sometimes it passes through water that is more softened than at other times. It does not have a salt bridge. And I always get fully softened water under high use, like when doing dishes or taking a shower.

Other than that, as I said, I am not getting any physical side effects or clogged coffee maker/tea kettle, so it's certainly doing the job the vast majority of the time. And it's great to be free of all those water bottles. I live in a rural area where I have to cart my trash to a dropoff station, and was getting tired of carting all those empties to be recycled!

Hi..
I believe I have the same sedmient filter you have.. but I think yours is hooked up backwards if I'm not mistaken..the red release button is the "IN" and the other end is the "OUT"... I would install the sediment filter as the first filter, followed by the carbon filter
 
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Hi..
Hi guys...
I own a whirlpool WHES33 watersoftener. It is working fine (well, to my knowledge)... recently I have read online that water softeners are supposed to have about 6 to12 inches of water on the bottom of the brine tank at all times. Mine is always completely dry. I have a stick I use to break any "salt bridges" and I have marked the stick to be able to know once I have reached the bottom of the tank.. Is it normal on this model to NOT have any water at the bottom of the brine tank?

Thanks.
 
Hey, magdiel1975: I believe that my water flow is the reverse of what you might believe it to be. The top canister is the sediment filter, and is the first one in the series (main line comes into the left of it). The output of the sediment filter comes out the left, then flows DOWN into the left-hand side of the carbon filter...output to the softener inlet is from the carbon filter, not the sediment filter. I hope I did not put my unit at a disadvantage by bringing the inlet in at the top of the filter array instead of at the bottom. I was trying to get the gravity-assist to push water through the filters. Thanks for taking the time to keep me straight!
 
Hey, magdiel1975: I believe that my water flow is the reverse of what you might believe it to be. The top canister is the sediment filter, and is the first one in the series (main line comes into the left of it). The output of the sediment filter comes out the left, then flows DOWN into the left-hand side of the carbon filter...output to the softener inlet is from the carbon filter, not the sediment filter. I hope I did not put my unit at a disadvantage by bringing the inlet in at the top of the filter array instead of at the bottom. I was trying to get the gravity-assist to push water through the filters. Thanks for taking the time to keep me straight!

Oh.. I have the same watersoftener you have with the same sediment filter.. I thought the one on the top (black) was the carbon filter.. If you look closely, on the front of the holes of the filter with the red release button, it says IN or OUT. - As long as you have the sediment filter as your first in line with the carbon second, you should be ok.. but the main thing is to make sure the IN and OUT of each filter is correct, if not, you will have problems. -

So Basically.. the first thing the main water line coming from outside needs to go into the sediment filter, then it needs to go through the watersoftener, then the carbon filter and finally into your home... in that order.
 
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Hi..
Hi guys...
I own a whirlpool WHES33 watersoftener. It is working fine (well, to my knowledge)... recently I have read online that water softeners are supposed to have about 6 to12 inches of water on the bottom of the brine tank at all times. Mine is always completely dry. I have a stick I use to break any "salt bridges" and I have marked the stick to be able to know once I have reached the bottom of the tank.. Is it normal on this model to NOT have any water at the bottom of the brine tank?

Thanks.

I have the same model that you do.

I took a look at my manual where it discusses salt bridges, and the diagram there shows a depth of water in the tank...it looks like it fills about 1/4 of the tank, although this drawing is meant to illustrate salt bridges, not be an accurate representation of performance. Page 20/Fig 42.

I would like to know exactly how you (or anyone) were able to get a stick shoved through all that salt. My unit was less than 1/3 full (up to Mark #2 out of 7 Marks), and I could not get a broom handle or even a long, skinny drill bit past an inch or two save my life...it seemed that the sheer weight of the salt compacted it. There are a few loose pellets laying on the very top but is pretty much compressed right below the top layer, although the unit seems to still be softening properly (slimy soap feeling).

So have you experienced salt bridges with your unit? What were the symptoms?
 
If it were me, I would remove the cartridges from both canisters. The softener will catch any particles that either of those things would catch and it will backwash it out to waste as opposed to buying useless cartridges all the time. Wells very rarely have sediment.

A brine tank is supposed to have water in it. One gallon of water will dissolve approximately 2.5 pounds of salt, so there has to be enough water in the brine tank to make the amount of brine you need for the next backwash.

The problem with not having soft water all the time may be because of the metering system in your softener. Metered heads allow a preset number of gallons depending on your hardness (which is 13 grains) to be used before triggering a back wash. If that trigger time is first thing in the morning, that might be enough time to use up your reserve soft water before the 2AM backwash.
 
I have the same model that you do.

I took a look at my manual where it discusses salt bridges, and the diagram there shows a depth of water in the tank...it looks like it fills about 1/4 of the tank, although this drawing is meant to illustrate salt bridges, not be an accurate representation of performance. Page 20/Fig 42.

I would like to know exactly how you (or anyone) were able to get a stick shoved through all that salt. My unit was less than 1/3 full (up to Mark #2 out of 7 Marks), and I could not get a broom handle or even a long, skinny drill bit past an inch or two save my life...it seemed that the sheer weight of the salt compacted it. There are a few loose pellets laying on the very top but is pretty much compressed right below the top layer, although the unit seems to still be softening properly (slimy soap feeling).

So have you experienced salt bridges with your unit? What were the symptoms?

The broomstick I use goes all the way down to the bottom.. I do this every time I pour salt into the tank.. I never let it go below number 2 as Whirlpool told me the softerner needs at least 10 inches of salt for a proper regeneration.. never go above level 4 or you will get salt bridging. If you are unable to get a broom stick down means your salt is getting too compacted and will soon give you problems.
 
Hi..
Hi guys...
I own a whirlpool WHES33 watersoftener. It is working fine (well, to my knowledge)... recently I have read online that water softeners are supposed to have about 6 to12 inches of water on the bottom of the brine tank at all times. Mine is always completely dry. I have a stick I use to break any "salt bridges" and I have marked the stick to be able to know once I have reached the bottom of the tank.. Is it normal on this model to NOT have any water at the bottom of the brine tank?

Thanks.

Ok..so I was able to reach out to Whirlpool and there should NOT be any water inside the brine tank..only when it regenerates.. The lady said these tanks are supposed to be dry or a very little tiny amount of water at the bottom but that's it..so basically it is normal not to see water in there. - I guess I answered my own question lol
 
I think I would look for a second opinion. Water can't dissolve salt instantly, so there should be water in the brine tank at all times except when the softener pulled the brine out. The last step in the back wash process is brine refill.

regencycles.jpg
 
I think I would look for a second opinion. Water can't dissolve salt instantly, so there should be water in the brine tank at all times except when the softener pulled the brine out. The last step in the back wash process is brine refill.

Well.. thing is that mine has been working great for the past 2 years.. it's always been like that.. no water inside the brine tank.
 
Okee Dokee

Ok, you left me thinking about "how would the salt disolve if there is no water".. so I had to call Whirlpool again, lol -

Now I got a different person who explained that these softeners WHES33 model are called "Dry Tank System".. which he explained that there is only about 2" of water inside the "brine well" not inside the "brine tank" which is why I was getting confused... I was looking inside the brine tank (where the salt is) and not inside the brine well which is the other compartment where the water resides and slowly drips out to the brine well.. He menitoned these tanks are dsigned to use as small amounts of water possible to waste the least amount of salt possible making the system very efficient.
 
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I'm not sure what this person is saying exactly, but the truth be known, the more salt that is used per regeneration, the more efficient the media is. There is a trade off between making the media super efficient using over 50 lbs of salt as opposed to using 9 to 12 pounds for a little less efficiency. There is no magic here just a salt setting. Most softeners I have installed come preset at 9 to 12 pounds of salt per regeneration per cubic foot of mineral. If your unit were in fact a 33,000 grain unit, it would be using that much salt per regeneration. I honestly don't think the mineral tank inside that unit is large enough to hold one cubic foot of mineral which means they hunched on the 33,000 part.
 
I'm not sure what this person is saying exactly, but the truth be known, the more salt that is used per regeneration, the more efficient the media is. There is a trade off between making the media super efficient using over 50 lbs of salt as opposed to using 9 to 12 pounds for a little less efficiency. There is no magic here just a salt setting. Most softeners I have installed come preset at 9 to 12 pounds of salt per regeneration per cubic foot of mineral. If your unit were in fact a 33,000 grain unit, it would be using that much salt per regeneration. I honestly don't think the mineral tank inside that unit is large enough to hold one cubic foot of mineral which means they hunched on the 33,000 part.

In my case, I get really soft water..very slimy.. which me and my family really like and enjoy.. I use about 75% of a 40lb bag of morton salt pellets per month.. so about 30 lbs (around $3 per month to run my system).. in my opinion that's pretty good and the water is super soft.
 
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I'm glad you enjoy it, I'm just trying to educate you a little on big box technology. Here is another example of their selling tactics:
Only Whirlpool® water softeners employ 6th Sense™ Technology for regeneration. The result is a significant savings in salt and water usage. Competitive models typically use a ‘fixed’ amount of salt to regenerate its media tank regardless of how much water has passed through the system. Whirlpool’s® 6th Sense™ Technology automatically calculates how much salt is required to clean its media bed and uses only what is necessary.

Salt DOES NOT clean the media bed. Salt is deposited on the media after the backwash cycle and is what is traded for hardness during the service period. They mentioned nothing about their so called "Dry Bed". The only way a dry bed would work is if the first cycle in the regeneration process was to add water to the brine tank so it had time to dissolve some salt. Here is a link to their site: http://www.ecodynewatertreatment.com/softeners/view/whes33/
Nowhere in their ad did they mention how much media was in the media tank.
 
I'm glad you enjoy it, I'm just trying to educate you a little on big box technology. Here is another example of their selling tactics:
Only Whirlpool® water softeners employ 6th Sense™ Technology for regeneration. The result is a significant savings in salt and water usage. Competitive models typically use a ‘fixed’ amount of salt to regenerate its media tank regardless of how much water has passed through the system. Whirlpool’s® 6th Sense™ Technology automatically calculates how much salt is required to clean its media bed and uses only what is necessary.

Salt DOES NOT clean the media bed. Salt is deposited on the media after the backwash cycle and is what is traded for hardness during the service period. They mentioned nothing about their so called "Dry Bed". The only way a dry bed would work is if the first cycle in the regeneration process was to add water to the brine tank so it had time to dissolve some salt. Here is a link to their site: http://www.ecodynewatertreatment.com/softeners/view/whes33/
Nowhere in their ad did they mention how much media was in the media tank.

"The only way a dry bed would work is if the first cycle in the regeneration process was to add water to the brine tank so it had time to dissolve some salt."

Right..that's exaclty what mine does.. when it regenerates it fills with water then drains itself leaving 2" of water inside the brine well.
 
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Right..that's exaclty what mine does.. when it regenerates it fills with water then drains itself leaving 2" of water inside the brine well.

I give up!
 

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