Roots in sewer pipe to main, Hydro-jet??

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Ooo,ooo...this is a good one. Let me in on it!

There are varying opinions here. Mine is this.
Any root intrusion requires repair or replacement. Cabling removes a portion, especially along the flow line, but not completely. Once the flow line is open a jetter, with the proper head, can be fed through and most of the roots cut and flushed out.
But cabling and jetting is not a solution to the problem and this should be explained before any service is provided. It's the ol' "Throwing good money after bad" scenario.
I have cabled, jetted and camera inspected many sewers. Depending on the tree and conditions, roots can grow back within a few weeks, even with a chemical treatment after the mechanical removal of the roots.
After a tree is removed and ground down to grade, the roots can continue to grow for years afterward.
I have inspected a few building drains where a hdpe was pulled (pipe-burst) through and the sewer still had occasional back ups. The bellies from the original t.c pipe were repeated through the new pipe and waste would collect in the low spots. Roots can affect the soil support around old pipes and cause shifts as they continue to grow.
I could never give a warranty for any period of time for a jetter job on roots. Unless a repair is made, no warranty. It's like betting against Mother Nature and that's never a good idea. Some companies offer the warranty as the set up to justify the dig job. That's fine. Just as long as everything is up front before the first service call starts.
Okay...I'm done for now. Back to work.:D
 
BroSamuel said:
I guess I'm new to the forum and don't want to ruffle too many feathers, but how many of the plumbers on this forum are familiar with how root removal with a hydro jetter works? I have a brand new 2001 machine that goes every where I go and works fairly well for most applications. The problem with any sewer machine is that they only remove 60 to 70% of the roots at best. We camera every job we do and the consensus is almost always the same. I you have a 4 inch clean out and it transitions to 6 inch pipe, the sewer machine just wont get all the roots out of the pipe. If the pipe has offsets and you have to use a smaller cutter, the result is even worse. Some customers root issues are so bad that they have to cable every 6 months to a year. When we us our hydro jetter the roots are totally gone from the pipe, that's why we offer a 3 year warranty. In the past 5 years that we've been using scrubbers, there have only been a handful of callbacks out of hundreds of customers! Jetting with a regular cleaning head would just clean the roots off and push the stoppage through, causing the roots to puff up. Using a root rat or warthog head cuts the roots flush with the edge of the pipe and removes all the roots out of the line. The roots eventually will grow back but it takes much longer than when we use a cable machine. There is a reason that we spent almost $50,000 on jetters and cameras. ;)

Well fair enough I think I get what you're saying. There may have been some confusion as to the equipment you were using. But hey everyone has their own opinion and on techniques and equipment etc. so there's nothing wrong with ya stating yours, it's always good to hear another side to the coin. Welcome to the forum
 
Ooo,ooo...this is a good one. Let me in on it!

There are varying opinions here. Mine is this.
Any root intrusion requires repair or replacement. Cabling removes a portion, especially along the flow line, but not completely. Once the flow line is open a jetter, with the proper head, can be fed through and most of the roots cut and flushed out.
But cabling and jetting is not a solution to the problem and this should be explained before any service is provided. It's the ol' "Throwing good money after bad" scenario.
I have cabled, jetted and camera inspected many sewers. Depending on the tree and conditions, roots can grow back within a few weeks, even with a chemical treatment after the mechanical removal of the roots.
After a tree is removed and ground down to grade, the roots can continue to grow for years afterward.
I have inspected a few building drains where a hdpe was pulled (pipe-burst) through and the sewer still had occasional back ups. The bellies from the original t.c pipe were repeated through the new pipe and waste would collect in the low spots. Roots can affect the soil support around old pipes and cause shifts as they continue to grow.
I could never give a warranty for any period of time for a jetter job on roots. Unless a repair is made, no warranty. It's like betting against Mother Nature and that's never a good idea. Some companies offer the warranty as the set up to justify the dig job. That's fine. Just as long as everything is up front before the first service call starts.
Okay...I'm done for now. Back to work.:D

I totally agree! I you have roots than your system is essentially failed and should be fixed. Most small communities around us are requiring people to get their lines video inspected before they purchase a home and if its got roots, it has to be replaced or lined within 6 months. We explain that if they have roots, their money would be better spent on repairing the pipe. We will credit the cost of the scrub towards digging the line up if they choose to fix the problem instead of putting a band aid on it.
 
I have remained quiet on this point, for the simple reason that I don't have mountains of experience with drain cleaning, and don't have a jetter, so can't speak with any real authority.

But among experienced drain cleaners that I do converse with, there seems to be a general consensus that a properly sized jetter with the right head is a superior tool for drain cleaning, be it grease, general clogs, or root intrusion.

Again, I don't have the experience to back this statement up, so it is worth less than what you are paying for it.
 
I agree Totally, obviously they aren't using the Hydro Jetter properly or don't have a very good one!
I guess I'm new to the forum and don't want to ruffle too many feathers, but how many of the plumbers on this forum are familiar with how root removal with a hydro jetter works? I have a brand new 2001 machine that goes every where I go and works fairly well for most applications. The problem with any sewer machine is that they only remove 60 to 70% of the roots at best. We camera every job we do and the consensus is almost always the same. I you have a 4 inch clean out and it transitions to 6 inch pipe, the sewer machine just wont get all the roots out of the pipe. If the pipe has offsets and you have to use a smaller cutter, the result is even worse. Some customers root issues are so bad that they have to cable every 6 months to a year. When we us our hydro jetter the roots are totally gone from the pipe, that's why we offer a 3 year warranty. In the past 5 years that we've been using scrubbers, there have only been a handful of callbacks out of hundreds of customers! Jetting with a regular cleaning head would just clean the roots off and push the stoppage through, causing the roots to puff up. Using a root rat or warthog head cuts the roots flush with the edge of the pipe and removes all the roots out of the line. The roots eventually will grow back but it takes much longer than when we use a cable machine. There is a reason that we spent almost $50,000 on jetters and cameras. ;)
 
Jetting the main for roots is a JOKE, jetting is for SOFT blockages, yes your roots will be nice and clean after jetting is done,,, find a plumber with a longer snake 150ft +, as per code you should have a c/o EVERY 100FT, this is money better spent..
You apparently have never witnessed hydro jetting with a Warthog or Root Ranger nozzle.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDr0bmOdDco[/ame]

If a jetter is less effective than your cable machine at cutting roots, then I suspect one of three things is the case...

1. Your nozzle is wrong.

2. Your jetter is wrong.

3. You do not have a jetter.
 
That was a pretty nice demonstration. If it can cut through a 2 x 4 that easy, is it safe for pipes, especially older clay pipes?
 
That was a pretty nice demonstration. If it can cut through a 2 x 4 that easy, is it safe for pipes, especially older clay pipes?

I wouldn't put it in Orangeburg but it is fine in concrete, clay, and PVC. Just keep it moving. The brutal force of the jet is pointed parallel to the pipe wall, not directly at the sides.
 
plbgbiz said:
You apparently have never witnessed hydro jetting with a Warthog or Root Ranger nozzle.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDr0bmOdDco

If a jetter is less effective than your cable machine at cutting roots, then I suspect one of three things is the case...

1. Your nozzle is wrong.

2. Your jetter is wrong.

3. You do not have a jetter.

I've only used the smaller jetters, with not quite as much force. It was a ridgid one. We would cut the roots out mechanically then if that didn't work we would try the jetter. But after seeing this video I can understand how a jetter can come in handy for main lines.
 
I cleaned the roots from the sewer pipes with my Warrior Jet from Spartan at 3000 Lb. of pressure, and I also used a root cutter attached with spinal nozzle designed for the roots. I have done thousands of this type of application with success over many years. I also utilize a camera when I am cutting roots, leaving the entire pipe practically new. I find after using this type of new method, with several applications, with the right equipment and experience, the roots will stop growing. Jetting with a root cutter and camera works magnificently. It is the new way to clean pipes now. The use of the snake or cable application is the old school.
Friends get with the program.
 
Why not actually dig up the problem area and replace the pipe where problem is at. That's a permanent solution.
If a 1950's era building sewer has roots at every joint (and they all do), in our area the cost for replacement would scarcely ever be under $3,800. Usually they are $5,000+.

If the roots are cleaned out effectively the cleaning could easily last over one year before needing to be repeated. So to pick a number out of the air, let's say that a cabling service call is $150 and has to be done once a year. It would be over 25 years before the customer breaks even strictly from a dollar stand point on a low end sewer replacement.

It all boils down to their budget, what they are willing to spend, and how big of a problem a annual sewer backup is (or is not) for them.
 
Interesting for sure. What does jetting cost, and what the price of a machine for typical 4" house sewers?
 
How about the inconvenience of not being able to drain anything and having to clean the tub and having to wait for the plumber to show up if he even shows up depending on the company you call my company charges anywhere from 189 to 450 depending on type of stoppage you have but as a professional we camera lines and give them the proper fixing method and not a temp band aid method. Its kinda like a car if you have leaky fluid on something way pay 5 dollars a bottle at an inconvenienced time and spend a .little extra to fix it right
 
Not to mention the fact that if roots can get in, raw sewage is getting out.

But I am thinking that many people would opt to pay $450 once a year for the next 10 years to have the roots cut or jetted out, rather than pay $4500 right now to have the line replaced.
 
How about the inconvenience of not being able to drain anything and having to clean the tub and having to wait for the plumber to show up if he even shows up depending on the company you call my company charges anywhere from 189 to 450 depending on type of stoppage you have but as a professional we camera lines and give them the proper fixing method and not a temp band aid method. Its kinda like a car if you have leaky fluid on something way pay 5 dollars a bottle at an inconvenienced time and spend a .little extra to fix it right
So you never provide drain cleaning services on a building sewer without calling for utility locates, getting a permit, bringing out your excavator, replacing pipe, getting an inspection, backfilling, and restoring the landscaping to pre-work conditions?

After all, that is what is "proper", correct?
 
Interesting for sure. What does jetting cost, and what the price of a machine for typical 4" house sewers?
Our minimum hydro-jetting service call is $450 and includes recorded video of the results.
 
After replacing , snaking , jetting, and a video -- thats going to be one clean pipe to look at. :D
 

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