Bird Doo Head
Well-Known Member
Hi Everyone
I'm new at this forum and am not certain if I am in the correct area, or if this question belongs in Tubs & Showers. Please pardon me if I'm incorrect.
I tried to keep the post short, but wanted to give you professionals as many details as I could think of.
My situation is that we have an elderly resident in our home who can no longer get into the 1st floor bathtub, as it is a 4 foot Kohler Greek & the apron is high. Since the room has space, my (genius?) plan was to put in a low curb shower stall next to the tub, as I want to keep the tub. Alternatively, I will "pan & pitch" the room and make the entire space a shower.
The DWV arrangement has me questioning my idea:
EXISTING SET-UP:
Existing, in the basement below the bathroom, there is a 3" stack with a "tree".
A) Into the top branch is a 2" line which goes up, catches a 1 1/2" line with a 1 1/4" lavatory. From there, it ties to the VTR above the first floor.
(3"- Becoming 4" 18" below the roof.)
B) Into the "Side" branch is a 3" line to a 3x4 closet bend for that bathroom's toilet. The length is 60" from CL Bend to CL Stack.
C) Into the "Front" branch is a 1 1/2" pipe (30" long) going to (wye facing almost vertical) a 1 1/2" trap for the existing bathtub. There is a clean out at the end of the wye.
D) Into the bottom, 3" extends below the basement floor to a Wye & 1/8 Bend which enters a 4" line to the street. There is a clean out before it enters the concrete. The only things after the stack on the main building drain line are a clean out, a building trap, (old house) and a tie in for the weep tiles around the footings and criss crossed under the basement floor (really old house)
THE GRAND PLAN:
Replace the 1 1/2" to the tub with 2" (The tree's branch socket is 2")
Replace the clean out at the end with a 2" and keep 1 1/2" to the tub (tub-shower would be more correct).
Tie the new shower, with a 2" P Trap because it is a shower, into the new 2" somewhere between the tub and the stack. The length of this from the trap to the stack will only be about 24". I can't make it much longer. I would make the connection with a wye and 1/8 bend into the side of the existing pipe.
I can't enter the stack below the tree because the pipe would be in the way of built in cabinets (or are the cabinetsin the pipe's way?) I also can't realistically make a new tap to the below-floor line, as more built in cabinets are in the way. I do have a clean-out for the main line about 3 horizontal feet and 7 vertical feet from the proposed new shower drain. It is 4", but is not vented.
SIX MILLION QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PLAN:
Does this sound proper?
Does it sound like it would work, or when the tub is emptied, will it back up into the shower pan?
Should I reverse the tap order on the 2" and put the shower in first, tub in after the shower (tub closer to stack)?
Should I re-vent the new shower drain line? Is it close enough to the tree to eliminate the need for a re-vent?
Venting will be quite a challenge, as all the walls are finished on its way to the stack. (Of Course!) Also, there is no way to run it above the flood rim before it has to go horizontal- The drain will be 2' into the room and there is no wall above before the stack.
I possibly could install an AAV in the wall of the bathroom, above the flood rim of the shower, with minimal damage. (Assuming it would get enough air inside the wall. I could leave an access plate for service.) But, the pipe to it would travel horizontally before it could go vertical. (Again, no wall between the stack and the trap.)
Side Note: The vent on this stack actually travels horizontally about 18" before it goes "up". I think it is called a "wet vent" because of the lav that drains into it.
What do all of you think? Sadly, the budget doesn't allow for a professional plumber to do the work. The house is too small for another shower room. (We tried to figure this out. We even considered a tub lift, but the person can't process information well enough to operate one. Assisting her in and out takes some more of her dignity away. Step in shower sounds like the answer until the next down-turn.
Is this a hopeless conundrum? I really hate to remove the tub in that room. I don't fit, but my wife sure enjoys it!
I wish I could photograph the tree and attach it, but that would require a trip to a computer forum and a camera forum. I can sketch it as CAD if it helps. (Only if someone can tell me how to attach a pdf to a post. I'm over the age limit for learning to much on computers!)
Again, I want to thank you all for your help in keeping this person living in our home as long as possible. A shower is one giant step in maintaining a little piece of what is left of her independence!
Paul
I'm new at this forum and am not certain if I am in the correct area, or if this question belongs in Tubs & Showers. Please pardon me if I'm incorrect.
I tried to keep the post short, but wanted to give you professionals as many details as I could think of.
My situation is that we have an elderly resident in our home who can no longer get into the 1st floor bathtub, as it is a 4 foot Kohler Greek & the apron is high. Since the room has space, my (genius?) plan was to put in a low curb shower stall next to the tub, as I want to keep the tub. Alternatively, I will "pan & pitch" the room and make the entire space a shower.
The DWV arrangement has me questioning my idea:
EXISTING SET-UP:
Existing, in the basement below the bathroom, there is a 3" stack with a "tree".
A) Into the top branch is a 2" line which goes up, catches a 1 1/2" line with a 1 1/4" lavatory. From there, it ties to the VTR above the first floor.
(3"- Becoming 4" 18" below the roof.)
B) Into the "Side" branch is a 3" line to a 3x4 closet bend for that bathroom's toilet. The length is 60" from CL Bend to CL Stack.
C) Into the "Front" branch is a 1 1/2" pipe (30" long) going to (wye facing almost vertical) a 1 1/2" trap for the existing bathtub. There is a clean out at the end of the wye.
D) Into the bottom, 3" extends below the basement floor to a Wye & 1/8 Bend which enters a 4" line to the street. There is a clean out before it enters the concrete. The only things after the stack on the main building drain line are a clean out, a building trap, (old house) and a tie in for the weep tiles around the footings and criss crossed under the basement floor (really old house)
THE GRAND PLAN:
Replace the 1 1/2" to the tub with 2" (The tree's branch socket is 2")
Replace the clean out at the end with a 2" and keep 1 1/2" to the tub (tub-shower would be more correct).
Tie the new shower, with a 2" P Trap because it is a shower, into the new 2" somewhere between the tub and the stack. The length of this from the trap to the stack will only be about 24". I can't make it much longer. I would make the connection with a wye and 1/8 bend into the side of the existing pipe.
I can't enter the stack below the tree because the pipe would be in the way of built in cabinets (or are the cabinetsin the pipe's way?) I also can't realistically make a new tap to the below-floor line, as more built in cabinets are in the way. I do have a clean-out for the main line about 3 horizontal feet and 7 vertical feet from the proposed new shower drain. It is 4", but is not vented.
SIX MILLION QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PLAN:
Does this sound proper?
Does it sound like it would work, or when the tub is emptied, will it back up into the shower pan?
Should I reverse the tap order on the 2" and put the shower in first, tub in after the shower (tub closer to stack)?
Should I re-vent the new shower drain line? Is it close enough to the tree to eliminate the need for a re-vent?
Venting will be quite a challenge, as all the walls are finished on its way to the stack. (Of Course!) Also, there is no way to run it above the flood rim before it has to go horizontal- The drain will be 2' into the room and there is no wall above before the stack.
I possibly could install an AAV in the wall of the bathroom, above the flood rim of the shower, with minimal damage. (Assuming it would get enough air inside the wall. I could leave an access plate for service.) But, the pipe to it would travel horizontally before it could go vertical. (Again, no wall between the stack and the trap.)
Side Note: The vent on this stack actually travels horizontally about 18" before it goes "up". I think it is called a "wet vent" because of the lav that drains into it.
What do all of you think? Sadly, the budget doesn't allow for a professional plumber to do the work. The house is too small for another shower room. (We tried to figure this out. We even considered a tub lift, but the person can't process information well enough to operate one. Assisting her in and out takes some more of her dignity away. Step in shower sounds like the answer until the next down-turn.
Is this a hopeless conundrum? I really hate to remove the tub in that room. I don't fit, but my wife sure enjoys it!
I wish I could photograph the tree and attach it, but that would require a trip to a computer forum and a camera forum. I can sketch it as CAD if it helps. (Only if someone can tell me how to attach a pdf to a post. I'm over the age limit for learning to much on computers!)
Again, I want to thank you all for your help in keeping this person living in our home as long as possible. A shower is one giant step in maintaining a little piece of what is left of her independence!
Paul