Installed Whirlpool Water Softener

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So Basically.. the first thing the main water line coming from outside needs to go into the sediment filter, then it needs to go through the water softener, then the carbon filter and finally into your home... in that order.

I agree. The water coming from a softener needs to be carbon filtered and reverse osmossed (?) ideally before drinking.

-Drinking the Water from a Softener-
 
If it were me, I would remove the cartridges from both canisters. The softener will catch any particles that either of those things would catch and it will backwash it out to waste as opposed to buying useless cartridges all the time. Wells very rarely have sediment.

A brine tank is supposed to have water in it. One gallon of water will dissolve approximately 2.5 pounds of salt, so there has to be enough water in the brine tank to make the amount of brine you need for the next backwash.

The problem with not having soft water all the time may be because of the metering system in your softener. Metered heads allow a preset number of gallons depending on your hardness (which is 13 grains) to be used before triggering a back wash. If that trigger time is first thing in the morning, that might be enough time to use up your reserve soft water before the 2AM backwash.

Hey, Speedbump.

1) Regarding sediment in wells...check out the top filter in my picture. That is a clear canister with a not-so-old white sediment cartridge in it (I actually considered installing a clean filter before taking that pic). I have lots of black mica flakes in my water, which was getting into faucets and toilet valves.

As an aside, not long after I moved in, my county and the state university ag center extension co-sponsored a reduced-cost water testing. Other than the hardness issue, the only two numbers that were above the mid point were Total Dissolved Solids (349mg/l) and salt (18mg/l).

2) Could you please clarify your observation on my possible running out of softened water...I'm not following it completely. Specifically, your last statement referred to "use up your reserve soft water." As a non-plumber homeowner, I thought that softeners continuously softened in an on-demand manner. Are you saying that these units do a one-off batch softening and then store that softened water until it is consumed, and then recharge at the next programmed back-flush time? Or does "reserve soft water" refer to something else?

Thanks for the education!
 
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Hey, Speedbump.

1) Regarding sediment in wells...check out the top filter. That is a clear canister with a not-so-old white sediment cartridge in it (I actually considered installing a clean filter before taking that pic). I have lots of black mica flakes in my water, which was getting into faucets and toilet valves.

As an aside, not long after I moved in, my county and the state university ag center extension co-sponsored a reduced-cost water testing. Other than the hardness issue, the only two numbers that were above the mid point were Total Dissolved Solids (349mg/l) and salt (18mg/l).

2) Could you please clarify your observation on my possible running out of softened water...I'm not following it completely. Specifically, your last statement referred to "use up your reserve soft water." As a non-plumber homeowner, I thought that softeners continuously recharged in an on-demand manner. Are you saying that these units do a one-off batch softening and then store that softened water until it is consumed, and then recharge at the next programmed back-flush time? Or does "reserve soft water" refer to something else?

Thanks for the education!

Hi..
I know your question is intended for speedbump.. but since we have the same unit I thought of chiming in, if you don't mind..

The times that I have run out of softwater it has been because we used the water while it was regenerating (meanining taking showers and or washing clothes, etc).. and also when there was a salt bridge inside the brine tank preventing the salt from touching the bottom of the tank... once I set the unit to automatic and set it to regenerate at 4 am (to make sure nobody is up and that time using any water)...also, I stopped filling the salt tank no more than level 4, but before putting in new salt, I would make sure there are no salt bridge (use a broomstick)... I have not had any more issues with it for a very long time.

When the system is regenerating, it sets itself into "bypass" mode automatically, so if you use water during that time, you will be filling your water heater with untreated water (hard water)

Depending on your hardness, make sure you set the amount of salt to match your hardness.. I have set mine to 25 because I have 250-275 ppm of hardness... hope that helps.
 
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I agree. The water coming from a softener needs to be carbon filtered and reverse osmossed (?) ideally before drinking.

-Drinking the Water from a Softener-

I put the carbon filter upstream of the softener for two reasons:

1) As a second particulate filter before the nozzle and venturi on this unit.

2) Because of limited space and ease of configuration. If I put the carbon filter on the output of the unit, then I would need to install a second bypass array in case THAT filter had a catastrophic physical failure. With the configuration I have, only one bypass array to cut out both filters concurrently was required.

So my question is...am I losing anything significant by having the carbon filter on the input side of the water softener instead of on the output side?

Thanks!
 
Hey, Speedbump.

1) Regarding sediment in wells...check out the top filter. That is a clear canister with a not-so-old white sediment cartridge in it (I actually considered installing a clean filter before taking that pic). I have lots of black mica flakes in my water, which was getting into faucets and toilet valves.
Your softener will catch the Mica just like the cartridge filter would. Forgive me for being so critical, but I hate cartridge filters and they are a pet peeve of mine. I just hate to see so many people wasting their money on useless items.

As an aside, not long after I moved in, my county and the state university ag center extension co-sponsored a reduced-cost water testing. Other than the hardness issue, the only two numbers that were above the mid point were Total Dissolved Solids (349mg/l) and salt (18mg/l).
TDS max is 500 ppm, so that's not too bad. That amount of salt is a non issue.

2) Could you please clarify your observation on my possible running out of softened water...I'm not following it completely.
Metered softeners depending on your hardness and the amount of media in your softener determine how many gallons can be treated before backwashing is needed. Lets say you have 10 grains of hardness and a one cubit foot softener. That one cubic foot is good for (according to most) 32,000 grains of hardness. Divide the 32,000 by 10 grains and you now have 3200 gallons of soft water. Since the meter triggers at a set number, we lower the usable soft water by "maybe" 400 gallons which leaves 2800 gallons. This is what we set the meter for. If it triggers at 2800 gallons and it's 6:00AM you only have 400 gallons of water left before hard water starts coming out of the unit.
Specifically, your last statement referred to "use up your reserve soft water."
The 400 galons is your reserve
As a non-plumber homeowner, I thought that softeners continuously recharged in an on-demand manner. Are you saying that these units do a one-off batch softening and then store that softened water until it is consumed, and then recharge at the next programmed back-flush time? Or does "reserve soft water" refer to something else?
The salt is deposited on the mineral. The salt is exchanged for hardness. Once the salt is all gone, it's time to backwash again.

Thanks for the education!
 
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I put the carbon filter upstream of the softener for two reasons:

1) As a second particulate filter before the nozzle and venturi on this unit.

2) Because of limited space and ease of configuration. If I put the carbon filter on the output of the unit, then I would need to install a second bypass array in case THAT filter had a catastrophic physical failure. With the configuration I have, only one bypass array to cut out both filters concurrently was required.

So my question is...am I losing anything significant by having the carbon filter on the input side of the water softener instead of on the output side?

Thanks!

I am on well water as well.. I would not use a carbon filter if your water tastes good.. the more filters you have, the more stress you potentially put on your waterpump and also the more filters the more you restrict the flow of water into your house.

we have been blessed and our well water does not smell like anything and it tastes great :) - so I dont use a carbon filter.
 
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Hi..
I know your question is intended for speedbump.. but since we have the same unit I thought of chiming in, if you don't mind..

The times that I have run out of softwater it has been because we used the water while it was regenerating (meanining taking showers and or washing clothes, etc).. and also when there was a salt bridge inside the brine tank preventing the salt from touching the bottom of the tank... once I set the unit to automatic and set it to regenerate at 4 am (to make sure nobody is up and that time using any water)...also, I stopped filling the salt tank no more than level 4, but before putting in new salt, I would make sure there are no salt bridge (use a broomstick)... I have not had any more issues with it for a very long time.

Depending on your hardness, make sure you set the amount of salt to match your hardness.. I have set mine to 25 because I have 250-275 ppm of hardness... hope that helps.

You can get salt bridges by filling the brine tank up or near the top. I never fill mine past half way.

Are you saying your putting water in the brine tank manually?

Now that you have it on automatic, are you still adding water?

If your water has 275ppm of hardness it's only 16 grains hard. 25 is really wasting salt. Divide ppm by 17.1 for hardness.
 
Thanks, all, for the education.

I worry about salt bridges, primarily because I use so very little salt...it might be because I am the sole occupant. And as long as I get that slimy feeling, I know I'm getting softened water.

When my salt level gets lower I may just keep it between 2 and 4 so I can test for bridges easier.

I already manually emptied it out once to see if I had a bridge (not fun), I really don't want to do it again.
 
Hi..


You can get salt bridges by filling the brine tank up or near the top. I never fill mine past half way.

Are you saying your putting water in the brine tank manually?

Now that you have it on automatic, are you still adding water?

If your water has 275ppm of hardness it's only 16 grains hard. 25 is really wasting salt. Divide ppm by 17.1 for hardness.

No.. I dont put water in it at all.. the softerner takes care of that.. I only put salt in it, but only up to level 4 out of 8.. I used to fill it with salt all the way up, but was getting bridges.. whirlpool recommended not going higher than level 4

and yes, I can see how 25 is wasting and I would try 17-18.. I am using 25 because I don't know the amount of iron in my water..so the 25 is just to compensate for it.. but until I get an accurate iron level I would stick to 20-25 for now.
 
Keep in mind that one gallon of water can only dissolve 2.5 lbs of salt, so if there is the correct amount of water in your brine tank and there is a handful of salt left, the brine is ready for the next backwash. That hand full is what the water in there couldn't dissolve.
 
If you want to know for sure, you can purchase one of these:

http://www.pumpsandtanks.com/Wells/test_kit.htm

thanks.. I have thought of buying something to tell me the amount of iron, but thing is that.. you know when there's a high level of iron in the water and it leaves an orangy color in the sinks and bathtubs/toilets?.. well, my house has never had that..not even a little bit, so that tells me the iron level must not be so high at all.. yes, the sediment filter ends up light orange, so I know there is some iron in the water.. I also change my sediment filter monthly.. I bought a big box of them and they only costs like $1 each..a box of 25- 10 micro filters.
 
I know that the string wound filters will catch some particles and discolor. That's what makes people think they are doing a good job. When in fact, most of us have clear water iron. Clear water iron will pass through practically any filter no matter the micron size. Once it's oxidized by air, potassium permangenate or chlorine, the filter can trap it. It is now a solid.
 
thanks.. I have thought of buying something to tell me the amount of iron, but thing is that.. you know when there's a high level of iron in the water and it leaves an orangy color in the sinks and bathtubs/toilets?.. well, my house has never had that..not even a little bit, so that tells me the iron level must not be so high at all.. yes, the sediment filter ends up light orange, so I know there is some iron in the water.. I also change my sediment filter monthly.. I bought a big box of them and they only costs like $1 each..a box of 25- 10 micro filters.

1) Where did you get your cartridges so cheap?

2) Regarding smelly water...my house had been vacant for 5 years before I purchased it and there was a very strong sulphur smell to the water...when you turned on the outside faucet, the smell would drive you back. Regular use would keep the smell down, but when I would go out of town for work (about a week away from home), it would come back. Then it gradually went away all together. I'm glad, I did not want to have the well shocked.
 
Speedbump ( or anyone with an opinion):

I have been using the Whirlpool brand water softener cleaner in my unit...every 3 months as recommended. Then I run a recharge, as instructed.

In your opinion, is it necessary to use these cleaners?

Is there a make-it-yourself substitute?
 
1) Where did you get your cartridges so cheap?

2) Regarding smelly water...my house had been vacant for 5 years before I purchased it and there was a very strong sulphur smell to the water...when you turned on the outside faucet, the smell would drive you back. Regular use would keep the smell down, but when I would go out of town for work (about a week away from home), it would come back. Then it gradually went away all together. I'm glad, I did not want to have the well shocked.

I bought mine at Amazon almost a year ago.. they were about $1 something, I can't remember exactly, like $30 something for the 25 filters.. so like $1.30 - $1.50 each.. great deal... Im sure if you look in amazon you would find a deal similar to that.. anything under $2 per filter is a great deal.

Also, they say they are a 3-month filter..but, I always change them montly no matter what.. I am not taking any chances with my pump.. and since they are so cheap I dont' really mind.

also, don't get those 5 micron ones..that's too much for well water and may cause your pump to work more than it should.. once my batch of 10 microns are done, I am moving uo to 25 microns.
 
I have been using the Whirlpool brand water softener cleaner in my unit...every 3 months as recommended. Then I run a recharge, as instructed.

In your opinion, is it necessary to use these cleaners?

Is there a make-it-yourself substitute?
There is no substitute that I'm aware of. If I am correct your talking about a powder you pour down the brine well occasionally. It's either a citric acid which is mostly for maintenance and a stronger powder that uses sodium metabisulfite and sodium hydrosulfite which is much stronger and removes the iron from the mineral bed. The one your probably using is citric acid.
 
Speedbump ( or anyone with an opinion):

I have been using the Whirlpool brand water softener cleaner in my unit...every 3 months as recommended. Then I run a recharge, as instructed.

In your opinion, is it necessary to use these cleaners?

Is there a make-it-yourself substitute?

I have also been using the whirlpool liquid one.. but recently I found another one at Lowe's from Filter-Mate for $6.97.. It'a powder that you mix with warm water and after it disolves you pour it in the brine well and manually regenerate the system as you woud normally do with the Whirlpool one... so far it has worked well, so I think I will continue to use it. These cleaners remove iron deposits inside your softener, so yes, they are recommended.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_272120-677-...ter+softener+cleaner&productId=3572834&rpp=48
 
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If you have iron and you want to know if this stuff is working. Watch the discharge water coming from the discharge hose during the first cycle which is backwash. The water should be yellow to gold in color.
 

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