Plumbing qualifications in the u.s.?

[havasu]

Hi Chrism, "Long time, no talk to!" I believe everyone is tightening their belts and cutting any and all fat from their businesses. Hang in there, life is like a pendulum, and the economy will once again swing the other direction. I for one can't wait for this to happen!

[phishfood]

Well, I must admit that I am the rare one of the moment. The company that I work for has experienced a DRARMATIC downsizing over the past 2 1/2 - 3 years, by a magnitude of more than 80% of our workforce. My dedication to quality and going above and beyond is probably the only thing that has kept me working considering my pay rate compared to others that work here.

But we are starting to see some more work entering the pipeline. The first time I worked for this company, I ended up running large apartment construction jobs for them. Ever since I came back, they have been wanting me to step into a supervisory position, but I have always said no. But they have cut deep into their employee base, and now we are starting to pick up a little, that I find myself being "dragged up the ladder". The only problem is, presently there is no real financial incentive for me to do this. And my problem still is that the focus seems to be more on production than on quality, the reason that I moved back to installation from supervising in the first place. What does one do?

[CHRISM]

"Hi Phishfood", From your wording and from other `Posts`of yours - it is apparent that you `pride` yourself
in the quality of your workmanship.

With regard to the Company that you are currently working for trying to get you to Supervise on projects - that
WILL happen - when it is `obvious` that you have experience, knowledge and skills - `over and above` that of
others on site - your `Manager`/ Engineer/Surveyor/Supervisor - whichever one will TRY to leave the `job` in YOUR hands.

I am sure that you will have been in circumstances where the `Engineer` or Contracts Manager seems to have less knowledge than you on Contracts [?] - it is `Human Nature` to try to `delegate` responsibility in their `absence` - Albeit completely UNFAIR to you - in a `Non Paid` [Extra] capacity.

Just one point - it NEEDS people like you to RAISE `Skill Levels` and `Quality of Work` - only by having people
who `Care` about their `Trade` and the Works that they carry out - will the `Industry` Improve, - AGAIN I
realise that this is NOT your `obligation`.

Also - if I am reading correctly - you seem to be saying that the COMPANY policy is more `Production`over
`Quality` - THAT can be `difficult` for a Perfectionist` to deal with ! - AND of course you trying to influence
a `better` standard of Workmanship could be viewed as `interfering with production` - Although THAT would
be a VERY `short sighted` viewpoint.

If you DO `take on` the unpaid extra responsibility NOW - is it likely that your Company would show their
`Gratitude` in `Other` ways - OR in the Future ?? - although `Future` is always `Distant` at the very least -
in terms of `perception`.

I know that THIS may seem to you as the answer from an `Employers` point of view [as I am an Employer] -
BUT I assure you that `I mean well` by my comments.

I take it `as read` that you have established the fact that you cannot negotiate additional payment for a
Supervisory Position [?] - in light of the Company`s current Trading Position.

Many Years ago I was working on Site where the average standard of workmanship was NOT `good`
and mine - which WAS - attracted `Resentment` - I persevered - giving `hints` on improving things,
THAT was NOT always appreciated - it was while I was Self Employed and although I was installing
Heating Systems on a `Fixed Price` - I was proud that my `Workmanship` could NOT be `Bettered`.

In time word got round that while I was installing much quicker than the others - my workmanship was
still much `better` - some people - taking my `hints` on board `improved` their workmanship. By the time I left that [Large] work site - I had almost `Shamed` them into Improving - so one person CAN make a difference.

I hope that your `situation` can be resolved - I`m sure that the Company knows what they have - in terms of
your Skills and Knowledge.


""Regards", CHRISM.

[Mr_David]

Hi CHRISM

Here in San Diego County The only qualification required by a plumber is the contractors license of the employer. The employer is ultimately responsible for all the work done by the employed plumber. The employer is also responsible for liabilities.
When I started plumbing 25+ yrs ago my employer would send me out to troubleshoot and repair water heaters under warranty. I was clueless. Had a how to guide tucked in my pocket. So if the house gets burned down it's the holder of the CL that's to blame.

I'm not sure but I heard that up north in the Los Angeles area the individual plumber has to have certification.

[CHRISM]

"Hello Mr David",

Sorry that I did not see your reply to me when you Posted it - But thanks for your information - I have been told of similar `No Individual Qualifications Required` circumstances - I find this situation almost `Unbelievable` - the attitude here in the U.K. is that `Technical Works` such as Plumbing - Heating & Gas should be carried out by `Qualified Professional Tradespeople` ONLY - This is especially `Regulated` on Construction Sites.

I have mentioned previously that IF I allowed a `Non - Qualified` person to carry out Plumbing - Heating or Gas Works and a `Problem` occurred - which resulted in an Insurance Claim - My Insurance Provider would NOT `Cover` the Claim without PROOF of the Qualifications of the Operative whose `Work` caused the Damage.

IF it `came to light` that I was using Unqualified Persons to carry out `Technical Work` - OR `Hot Work` - however `Simple` - my Insurers would CANCEL my Insurance - OR wait for a Claim and then notify me that I was NOT `Covered`[?].

I would imagine that EVERYONE would prefer to know that ALL `Technical` Works were carried out in their Homes and Businesses by `Fully Qualified Trades Persons`.
WHY would anyone want a `Labourer`/ `Handyman` installing their Plumbing, Heating or Gas - ??

Also people are being CHARGED `Top Dollar` for `Tradesmen` to do these Works - which are then carried out by `Handymen` !!

Obviously - as I have stated on here previously - I know that there are some `Superb Tradesmen` who are NOT Qualified in Plumbing - But I have to also state that these people are `Far & Few Between` [U.K. `saying`] - So I would always be questioning the use of `Unqualified people`- in MOST situations.

I meant this to be a short reply - "Sorry" Everybody.

"Regards",


CHRISM.

[lordofthepipes]

Chicago code is a 4-5 year apprenticeship and the plumbing exam. you must preform a copper,pvc,and cast iorn project then written exam followed by a isometric drawing of a three story building. aprox 70% of the people fail the test. on the job everyone must have a license either journeyman or apprentice and no more than two apprentice's per journeyman also if you have two apprentice's they must be 3-4 year. you can only have one 1-2 year guy, same for service.

[CHRISM]

"That is More Like it Should Be" !!

I have been very surprised on this Forum in the past - I have been `Informed` that there are NO `Nationally Recognised` Plumbing Qualifications - I could understand that - IF All of the different States will insist on Inspecting Qualifications obtained in other States - and If `Recognised` - allow Plumbers to Work within their Area.

I have also been told that a Contractor can Employ `anyone they like` to carry-out Plumbing Works - As long as the Contractor has a `Plumbing Licence` - or Plumbing is included in His `Licence`.

I queried about the Insurance implications - If Damage etc is done by `Unqualified` personnel.

When I stated that I could NOT Employ anyone who did NOT have Qualifications - because my Insurers would NOT `Cover` ANY Plumbing, Heating, Gas Works without PROOF that whoever did the Work WAS Qualified - I am sure that I received answers that stated - It is NOT like that in the U.S. - I was amazed !

I DID hear about States - such as yours where there are `Strict Rules` and Requirements for Plumbers Qualifications - What I could not understand was the fact that there was so much Difference between the Answers that I was getting.

Thanks for your `Post`.


CHRISM.