Plumbing Forum - Professional & DIY Plumbing Forum > General Plumbing Discussion > Water Heaters and Softeners > Thankless Water Heater




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-03-2013, 06:58 PM   #1
StuckHelp
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Default Thankless Water Heater

Ok I made the biggest mistake in my life - using a friend to do a permit pulled job on a property. Needless to say what a nightmare. I have remolded an entire unit down to the studs and have passed every single inspection BUT the tankless water heater. I keep getting the "inspector doesnt want to work" from the plumber with NO clear answer or plan of action. Today I finally broke down and decided to take actions into my own hands and left the inspector a message that I will be meeting with him tomorrow to see where we go from here. (I just don't know if the plumber is now lying to me - sad but true)

Here is how everything stands:
We have had two inspectors throughout this project. The first one was replaced by this new one. The first one signed off to put up the drywall etc and now the new one doesn't want to sign off final inspection stating something about not enough venting.

Now I would like to be prepared for what this inspector has to tell me tomorrow so I need to know what I should know:

I am getting the specs on the current model installed (yes it is an indoor model)
I have measured the entire apartment and have drawn a blueprint of demensions.
The tankless is located in the kitchen with a vent to the roof and a an additional vent next to it probably 5x12 (looks like an air conditioning vent) which leads to the attic
this is a small tankless for a 600sq place

I have had other buildings installed with tankless without an issue but I used a plumber who was grade A. Unfortunately he was too busy with other commitments to get this place done and I decided to go with a friend - BIG mistake.

I am extremely frustrated and I don't want to appear like an idiot and want positive feedback from the inspector so please if you guys could hit me up with what I should be ready with tomorrow I would greatly appreciated it.



__________________
StuckHelp is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2013, 08:59 PM   #2
havasu
Moderator
PLF_MODERATOR.png
 
havasu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,349
Liked 416 Times on 347 Posts
Likes Given: 62

Default

I would recommend finding out the make and model of the TWH, and doing a thorough research via the Internet. Most companies have downloadable PDF files, explaining the construction requirements, up to and including the venting of the unit. Once you have the installation brochure, you will have the necessary knowledge to either agree with the inspector, or provide him with the manufacturer's instructions.



__________________
havasu is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2013, 09:43 PM   #3
StuckHelp
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Default

Thanks! I pulled the installation manual off the website and found the min max Btu/h the system requires.

My question now is how much space do I need for a the max number of btu/h? I have the required 5" vent going to the ceiling but apparently the inspector feels there isnt enough air venting...

is there some ratio or space vs btu/h? (is this by county in california or is a national wide acceptance?)

i really want our friendship to survive so i am trying to take this on myself

__________________
StuckHelp is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2013, 09:55 PM   #4
stevemachine
Senior Member
 
stevemachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: edmonton, alberta
Posts: 787
Liked 89 Times on 78 Posts
Likes Given: 91

Default

You need fresh air coming into the unit also, can't just take it from the room. Is there an intake on the unit? If not you will for sure need a fresh air inlet. Probably 4" or 5"

__________________

If you don't learn something new everyday at work, it's not even worth going.

stevemachine is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2013, 10:03 PM   #5
StuckHelp
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Default

Thats the confusing part. According to the manual you can do two types of installation a "direct-vent" or just the exhaust vent. I guess the "direct vent" has both seperate exhaust and intake vents. if you go this route then you have to put a plate on the front of the unit (it appears those block the air intake from the front of the unit)

my plumber went with just one pipe vent to the roof which I assume is the exhaust. there is no plate cover on the front of the unit so the unit can suck air from the open space. also a vent was opened in the ceiling next to the tankless (looks like an airconditioning vent) which just allows free air from the attic.

does any of that make sense?

thanks!

__________________
StuckHelp is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2013, 10:11 PM   #6
StuckHelp
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Default

Here is a picture of what I believe to be the "vents" for intake in the front...is this incorrect? why would they want to block this if you do a "direct-vent" is it because the direct vent has an air intake?



__________________
StuckHelp is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2013, 10:15 PM   #7
stevemachine
Senior Member
 
stevemachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: edmonton, alberta
Posts: 787
Liked 89 Times on 78 Posts
Likes Given: 91

Default

Ok I get what your saying, however it could be a code from your state that supersedes the manufacturers instructions. I know every tankless ive installed either had fresh air piped directly into the unit or the was a combustion air pot in the room. I'm betting the inspector doesn't like that there's no fresh air coming into the unit. To put things into perspective you need 10 cu ft of air for every 1000 btu/h. On tankless units that is ALOT of air usually. That tankless unit runs and you'll have a serious negative pressure in your small apartment, that tankless will suck your entire apartment into it lol. That's probably his concern

__________________

If you don't learn something new everyday at work, it's not even worth going.

stevemachine is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2013, 11:28 PM   #8
StuckHelp
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Default

thanks! so informative i just did some rough calculations and given the room this is in it actually meets the 10 cu ft requirement. I understand some inspectors are rough and he may require a fresh air supply. I am definitely not a plumber (as evident by my descriptions) but just looking at the manual I need to add another pipe to the roof and a plate cover for the front. I mean this doesn't seem *impossibe* as my plumbers make it seem.

Thanks for all the info I didn't want to appear that I was some dim witted woman going to complain at the housing office to the inspector. Just want the truth and I want to make the inspector happy and pass.

__________________

Last edited by StuckHelp; 04-03-2013 at 11:39 PM.
StuckHelp is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2013, 11:48 PM   #9
stevemachine
Senior Member
 
stevemachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: edmonton, alberta
Posts: 787
Liked 89 Times on 78 Posts
Likes Given: 91

Default

No worries, glad I could help, however even if your room is big enough to support the combustion you still need fresh air inlet. The point being you don't want to use air in the room to complete combustion, you want it to come from outside. Maybe it doesn't apply to you in California much lol but I always think here in Alberta it's cold 7 months a year, I don't want to use this air I paid to heat as combustion air, because air will find its way in through cracks in your home but it's not what you want, like I said ideally if you bring air in from outside (fresh air inlet) the air required from combustion will draw from that pipe and not your home. If there's a will there's a way, I guarantee you one way or another it's possible to bring in a fresh air inlet. You can even use a concentric kit to avoid two penetrations through the roof. Could be an option, never used one on a roof but I don't see why you couldn't

__________________

If you don't learn something new everyday at work, it's not even worth going.

stevemachine is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-04-2013, 12:22 AM   #10
StuckHelp
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Default

hit the nail on the head. the last thing i want to do is make another hole in the roof. i wonder if it will be possible to just put in the air intake vent in the attic. the roof has plenty of those air round spinning things on top so there is fresh air coming in. although now to think of it i definitely do not have enough cu feet requirement if i do that.

worse comes to worse all i need is this "direct-vent conversion kit" and punch a hole in the roof...doesnt seem like its the end of the world like the plumber claims

have no idea about the concentric kit but will look that up now! thanks so much!



__________________
StuckHelp is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water in bottom of heater tank - and - hot water in cold lines SteveRiley Water Heaters and Softeners 14 11-09-2012 12:17 AM
Tankless Hot Water Heater, Noritz N0751M Will Not Heat Water iceundersiege Water Heaters and Softeners 6 04-03-2012 03:21 AM
Water heater connection to boiler domestic hot water coil gillric Water Heaters and Softeners 2 11-11-2011 11:16 AM
intermittent scalding water from electric water heater provlima Water Heaters and Softeners 2 02-21-2011 01:29 AM
problem..scalding water from electric water heater provlima Water Heaters and Softeners 2 12-14-2010 02:37 AM