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Old 07-04-2012, 12:42 AM   #1
otth2oski
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Default Whole House Purifier - Low Pressure

I have a cottage system that runs a jet pump to draw water form the lake. I have the pressure switch set at 40/60. I have a Vitapur whole house filter in the system.

My setup is pump to pressure tank to filter to mainline. I am getting low pressure even though my filters have been replaced.

I was wondering if it might be better to install the filter between the pump and the pressure tank, rather than between the tank and the main line. My theory being that the power of pump could force the water through the filter better than the pressure from the tank and then once it is in the pressure tank, it would have uninhibited flow into the main line.

Thoughts?



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Old 07-04-2012, 02:58 PM   #2
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I have seen well system with the filter in the same location as yours. The filter has been replaced, but your pressure is still low. Sounds like another issue other than the filter. (pump,valves,check valve,etc)



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Old 07-05-2012, 03:06 PM   #3
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Those inline filters are useless. Cramming water through them simply makes more stuff go right through. I don't know what kind of peace of mind these filters give you when drawing from a lake, but unless your afraid of choking to death on a snail, they aren't going to remove anything that would otherwise be harmful to you. If there is anything in your lake water that may be harmful, you might want to have it tested and get a real system that will deal with it.

I don't know how much, but by removing the filters, I guarantee your pressure will be better.

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Old 07-06-2012, 06:54 AM   #4
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I agree completelly with speedbump. maybe Install a IR filter under your kitchen sink would be a better alternative and would do more to protect you.

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Old 08-12-2012, 08:31 AM   #5
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I am thinking along the same line. I have heavy sediment in my well and am concerned it's possibly fouling my drain back valve, CSV and possibly pressure tank and gauge.

Is it a good or bad idea to install a separate sediment filter before these components?

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Old 08-12-2012, 03:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Is it a good or bad idea to install a separate sediment filter before these components?
Do you mean like installing an in line filter in your well???

The best thing to do is identify the sediment. I hear this term all the time on Forums and have to wonder what people are calling sediment. The only things I know of that could imitate sedimate is sand or particles of mineral collected on your plumbing then flaking off and going up stream.
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Old 08-12-2012, 09:43 PM   #7
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As a professional well man, I would also identify the "sand" you describe. If it is truly producing silica sand, then you need a professional well man to re-develop the well or use a sediment trap. The latter is not a filter, nor will it fix your sand problem, other than keep the sediment from building up in the downstream components. The pump will still take a beating, including the check valve (back flow valve). That is why a well man would be a better alternative...below is how I would plumb the system:

WELL PUMP WITH A PRESSURE GAUGE IN LINE-----SEDIMENT TRAP (42 gallon tall galvanized or glass lined tank with 1" port on top) on immediate discharge side of pump, with drain set up for manual dump (dirty water solenoid with custom timers available also)----PRESSURE SWITCH PICKUP AFTER SEDIMENT TRAP----PRESSURE TANK----PSI GAUGE----MASTER VALVE----PROPERLY SIZED SEDIMENT 5 MICRON FILTER----CHECK VALVE (back flow)----HOUSE.

BE SURE YOUR PIPING IS NOT RESTRICTIVE...IF USING PEX, REMEMBER THAT IT IS ONE SIZE SMALLER THAN PVC FOR THE SAME RATING. 1" PEX IS USUALLY GOOD FOR MOST WELL PUMPS UNLESS THEY ARE LARGER THAN ONE HORSEPOWER. PEX IS NOT A BAD IDEA IF YOU HAVE A JET PUMP SINCE IT WON'T USUALLY MELT LIKE PVC. ALWAYS USE A PVC PLUG IN A METAL TEE FOR PRIMING. THE PVC PLUG WILL ACT AS A FUSE, SAVING THE IMPELLER, IF YOU HAVE A BAD MELTDOWN WITH JET PUMP. IF YOU HAVE A SUBMERSIBLE, THEN BE SURE YOU USE SOME SORT OF PUMP PROTECTION SHUTDOWN DEVICE (MONITORS AMPS GOING TO PUMP).

DRAIN SEDIMENT TANK WEEKLY OR MONTHLY, DEPENDING ON HOW BAD IT IS. AS LONG AS YOUR PRESSURE SWITCH IS NOT ON THE PUMP SIDE OF THE SEDIMENT TANK, IT SHOULD STAY CLEAN AND FREE OF SAND. THIS IS USUALLY WHAT CAUSES SO MANY FAILURES WHEN ANY MINERALS OR SAND ARE IN THE WATER. A SEDIMENT TRAP WILL NOT DO ANYTHING FOR MINERALS SUCH AS IRON, AND IN FACT, MAY CAUSE MORE DISCOLORATION OF THE WATER SINCE IT GIVES THE WATER MORE CONTACT TIME WITH OXYGEN.

FIND A WELL GUY WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE STATE GROUND WATER ASSOCIATION OR THE NATIONAL GROUND WATER ASSOCIATION. ALSO CHECK TO SEE THAT HE IS IN GOOD STANDING WITH THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU. SOME COUNTIES HAVE ONLINE RESOURCES TO FIND OUT IF HE IS LICENSED AND IF HE HAS EVER BEEN SUED AND FOUND LIABLE. JUST ABOUT EVERY COUNTY HAS SEVERAL WELL DRILLERS WHO SERVICE THE AREA.

JODY
WWW.JPANDERSONWELL.COM

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Old 08-13-2012, 11:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedbump View Post

Do you mean like installing an in line filter in your well???

The best thing to do is identify the sediment. I hear this term all the time on Forums and have to wonder what people are calling sediment. The only things I know of that could imitate sedimate is sand or particles of mineral collected on your plumbing then flaking off and going up stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jody View Post

As a professional well man, I would also identify the "sand" you describe. If it is truly producing silica sand, then you need a professional well man to re-develop the well or use a sediment trap. The latter is not a filter, nor will it fix your sand problem, other than keep the sediment from building up in the downstream components. The pump will still take a beating, including the check valve (back flow valve). That is why a well man would be a better alternative...below is how I would plumb the system:
It seems more like a creek bed silt, not that heavy but am concerned about the components after the pump. I am installing a system (finally) now but was wondering if the valves/tank should be protected. There is a sediment filter included to use before the main filter(s).

If the sediment turns out to be silica or very heavy, I will consult a well man. I am not 100% sure at this time of sediment amount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jody Continues

WELL PUMP WITH A PRESSURE GAUGE IN LINE-----SEDIMENT TRAP (42 gallon tall galvanized or glass lined tank with 1" port on top) on immediate discharge side of pump, with drain set up for manual dump (dirty water solenoid with custom timers available also)----PRESSURE SWITCH PICKUP AFTER SEDIMENT TRAP----PRESSURE TANK----PSI GAUGE----MASTER VALVE----PROPERLY SIZED SEDIMENT 5 MICRON FILTER----CHECK VALVE (back flow)----HOUSE.

BE SURE YOUR PIPING IS NOT RESTRICTIVE...IF USING PEX, REMEMBER THAT IT IS ONE SIZE SMALLER THAN PVC FOR THE SAME RATING. 1" PEX IS USUALLY GOOD FOR MOST WELL PUMPS UNLESS THEY ARE LARGER THAN ONE HORSEPOWER. PEX IS NOT A BAD IDEA IF YOU HAVE A JET PUMP SINCE IT WON'T USUALLY MELT LIKE PVC. ALWAYS USE A PVC PLUG IN A METAL TEE FOR PRIMING. THE PVC PLUG WILL ACT AS A FUSE, SAVING THE IMPELLER, IF YOU HAVE A BAD MELTDOWN WITH JET PUMP. IF YOU HAVE A SUBMERSIBLE, THEN BE SURE YOU USE SOME SORT OF PUMP PROTECTION SHUTDOWN DEVICE (MONITORS AMPS GOING TO PUMP).

DRAIN SEDIMENT TANK WEEKLY OR MONTHLY, DEPENDING ON HOW BAD IT IS. AS LONG AS YOUR PRESSURE SWITCH IS NOT ON THE PUMP SIDE OF THE SEDIMENT TANK, IT SHOULD STAY CLEAN AND FREE OF SAND. THIS IS USUALLY WHAT CAUSES SO MANY FAILURES WHEN ANY MINERALS OR SAND ARE IN THE WATER. A SEDIMENT TRAP WILL NOT DO ANYTHING FOR MINERALS SUCH AS IRON, AND IN FACT, MAY CAUSE MORE DISCOLORATION OF THE WATER SINCE IT GIVES THE WATER MORE CONTACT TIME WITH OXYGEN.

FIND A WELL GUY WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE STATE GROUND WATER ASSOCIATION OR THE NATIONAL GROUND WATER ASSOCIATION. ALSO CHECK TO SEE THAT HE IS IN GOOD STANDING WITH THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU. SOME COUNTIES HAVE ONLINE RESOURCES TO FIND OUT IF HE IS LICENSED AND IF HE HAS EVER BEEN SUED AND FOUND LIABLE. JUST ABOUT EVERY COUNTY HAS SEVERAL WELL DRILLERS WHO SERVICE THE AREA.

JODY
WWW.JPANDERSONWELL.COM
Thanx for the heads-up on PEX size! I have also read that the pressure switch should be before the sediment filter so as the pump will receive the correct pressure signal?

If, once the filter system is installed, the sediment filter is prone to heavy loading/flow restriction, I thought a sediment filter such as LAKOS (shown below) would be helpful.

Thoughts?






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Old 08-13-2012, 11:31 AM   #9
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Pressure switch should be protected. We are not talking about a filter. a filter would be a bad thing to put between pump and tank. A filter becomes a "pressure gradient" and a potential dead head situation which can be disastrous...filters are last in the circuit....ALWAYS!

LAKOS brand separators are good if you are dealing with lots of flow and little settle time. Lakos is not a filter. The average household uses 3-400 gallons a day or less. A settle tank such as a 42 gallon galvanized tank is cheaper and works better in most cases than a lakos. I have installed both...Lakos has it's uses....5000 gallon a day plus irrigation systems or industrial systems are good applications.

Most 42 gallon tanks have a special hex key plug on top...rent a tool at your local hardware store for this one time use...tank sells for $149.00 at tractor supply as of today.

Hope this helps...

Jody

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Old 08-14-2012, 07:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jody View Post

Pressure switch should be protected.

We are not talking about a filter. a filter would be a bad thing to put between pump and tank. A filter becomes a "pressure gradient" and a potential dead head situation which can be disastrous...filters are last in the circuit....ALWAYS!

LAKOS brand separators are good if you are dealing with lots of flow and little settle time. Lakos is not a filter. The average household uses 3-400 gallons a day or less. A settle tank such as a 42 gallon galvanized tank is cheaper and works better in most cases than a lakos. I have installed both...Lakos has it's uses....5000 gallon a day plus irrigation systems or industrial systems are good applications.

Most 42 gallon tanks have a special hex key plug on top...rent a tool at your local hardware store for this one time use...tank sells for $149.00 at tractor supply as of today.

Hope this helps...

Jody
Yes, you surely have helped...

So no actual sediment filter but a device as offered by LAKOS or the tank you have suggested. The tank you suggest would be the more likely system to prevent deadheading?

I will initially install the sediment filter after the tank and if stoppage(s)/pressure loss is severe will go with LAKOS or the tank you suggested before the drain-back valve and CSV.

(And of course, if it is really bad, consult a well man).

I am also plumbing after the tank tee with 3/4" Sch 80 PVC (originally plumbed after tank with Sch 40 CPVC) (builders plumber). The filter company supplied the PVC to run between the components. If I introduce PEX within the PVC (to more easily make transitions between filter types), you suggest transitioning to 1" PEX because of reduced ID of the PEX tubing??

Again, THANX! It is appreciated.


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